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****Official Australia in England 2020 (Non-Ashes)*****

Daemon

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Yeah good points @Spark

India in particular has a 90% cake base and 10% expired icing with no middle layer

Australia's case is different, at least in my opinion, because I'm fairly confident Smith and Labuschagne will cover those gaps. For them, looking back at historical data to predict that it will remain an issue makes less sense.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Yeah good points @Spark

India in particular has a 90% cake base and 10% expired icing with no middle layer

Australia's case is different, at least in my opinion, because I'm fairly confident Smith and Labuschagne will cover those gaps. For them, looking back at historical data to predict that it will remain an issue makes less sense.
I mean there's good reason to think that combo will fix it. But we can't be sure it'll happen until it actually happens.
 

TheJediBrah

Hall of Fame Member
I mean there's good reason to think that combo will fix it. But we can't be sure it'll happen until it actually happens.
Well I think that Steve Smith at least is a very safe bet

He's averaged nearly 50 in ODIs since he became a specialist bat

jury still out on Labu though
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Smith bats 3, so rather irrelevant to a discussion on #4. We have the best #3 ever, at least so far and we sucked when we lost early wickets. You either need to have a great #4 or an excellent finisher in order to cover that issue of being top heavy.

I would actually say Shreyas has a higher ceiling than Labu in ODIs. Will be interesting to see how they both shape up. Wish Shreyas bowled more though and concentrated on his leggies so that it will be a very apples to apples comparison with Labu. :laugh:
 

TheJediBrah

Hall of Fame Member
Smith bats 3, so rather irrelevant to a discussion on #4.
Re-read the last page, discussions evolve.

It's also not correct. As an earlier table demonstrates, Smith has batted 4 for Australia more than anyone since 2015 other than Bailey. He batted 4 for most of the last World Cup too.
 
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honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Re-read the last page, discussions evolve.

It's also not correct. As an earlier table demonstrates, Smith has batted 4 for Australia more than anyone since 2015 other than Bailey. He batted 4 for most of the last World Cup too.
I would bat Labu 3 and Smith 4 too. But again, its pretty clear that he is the #3 and Labu is the #4, so I would rather focus on Labu and Shreyas and the #5-7s for both sides as that is where the problem is.

England are a better ODI side than both India and Australia as of now and I think NZ probably can be too.
 

TheJediBrah

Hall of Fame Member
I would bat Labu 3 and Smith 4 too. But again, its pretty clear that he is the #3 and Labu is the #4
For now, based on 1 match. I'd agree with whoever said earlier that they're basically interchangeable at those positions.

I also still consider England a better ODI team, Aus got very lucky this game with Starc's early wickets and the Maxwell/Carey parternship. But I think this series shows that it is a lot closer than people thought. I would have been happy for Aus just to be competitive coming from no cricket, with all the restrictions and up against an England that have been settled playing at home for a while. Winning the series was a surprise.
 

Burgey

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Re-read the last page, discussions evolve.

It's also not correct. As an earlier table demonstrates, Smith has batted 4 for Australia more than anyone since 2015 other than Bailey. He batted 4 for most of the last World Cup too.
Certainly did. Definitely think he should bat three though
 

Burgey

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Aus got very lucky this game with Starc's early wickets and the Maxwell/Carey parternship
As opposed to the previous game when England had no luck at all with a lower-middle order partnership and taking six for sfa.

Theres barely been a game of cricket played in history where a winning side hasn’t had some luck go their way or been assisted by their opponents’ ineptitude.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
For now, based on 1 match. I'd agree with whoever said earlier that they're basically interchangeable at those positions.

I also still consider England a better ODI team, Aus got very lucky this game with Starc's early wickets and the Maxwell/Carey parternship. But I think this series shows that it is a lot closer than people thought. I would have been happy for Aus just to be competitive coming from no cricket, with all the restrictions and up against an England that have been settled playing at home for a while. Winning the series was a surprise.
It's also worth noting that England were missing, you know, a pretty decent cricketer that would usually be batting 5 and bowling 10 overs...

It's still a good achievement though. These are both very strong teams by the standards of inter-WC year random ODI series and ODI series in England have ranged from "challenging" to "totally one-sided" since about 2013.

Re-read the last page, discussions evolve.

It's also not correct. As an earlier table demonstrates, Smith has batted 4 for Australia more than anyone since 2015 other than Bailey. He batted 4 for most of the last World Cup too.
I mean that's an incredibly low bar to clear. The next most used batsman at 4 only batted 10 times there!

Average of 30 ATG. Lolll. Good player, nothing more.
Specifically at 4 since the 2015 WC. So not exactly a complete representation of his record (I think he's batted mostly 3 since Clarke, Watson and Bailey left the scene). In any case though yeah he hasn't exactly lit the world on fire in ODIs since his super hot streak prior to and during the 2015 WC.
 

Burgey

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Firstly we will examine englands two most significant recent triumphs, albeit one was a tie and the other a fluke in a series where they were thoroughly outclassed.

The 2019 WC final - Boult’s ineptitude on the boundary in failing to effect a regulation catch and giving up six runs and of course the ball hitting the back of the recidivist thug’s bat and going for four. still only tied it but somehow got the trophy

2019 Ashes when said recidivist was dropped by Marcus Harris and also plumb lbw and not given. Didn’t matter in the end as it only masked the side’s inferiority for one match, but the point stands.

the only side which never has luck and wins solely on their own merits is AustralIa. Look at the adversity they overcame to win the Ashes last year and this series on the back of no cricket. Pure guts, talent and determination.

Let’s hark back to 2005 where england had the benefit of Ponting choosing to bowl at the toilet that is Edgbaston and a litany of joke umpiring decisions, along with their opponents best bowler being injured. This is not to mention their cheating

1981 - Botham had a slog and got lucky. Hughes should never have enforced the follow-on on that deck and then Australia collapsed - luck and ineptitude running amok.

2009 - Strauss claims the infamous bounced catch at lords from the Prince - given out and cost australIa the match and series.

2010/11 - Australia picks a squad of 846 ahead of the first test and bat so badly through the series that even Anderson seems competent for the only away series of his career.

Compare that to a test like, say Adelaide in 2006/7 where Australia had to toil very hard against a quality line up which was at its best to somehow take wickets on day five before batting against the might of Matthew Hoggard and Ashley Giles on a typically difficult Adelaide deck chasing a very tough total.

There are many many more, however, these salient examples provide my point, as I’m sure Corrin will agree, before issuing his apology for doubting my reasoning.
 
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John1990

State Vice-Captain
Yeah, I can get being funky if they need 4 or something, but with 10 to win you make the safe call for your death bowler
Still cheesed off tbh. Feels like he went for the funky glory call hoping it worked so the pundits bigged his captaincy up even more than normal. Wood or T Curran should have had that over. Wood probably shaded it considering his economy on the day and pace vs two new batsmen. Very bad from Morgan when he had two better options available.
 

morgieb

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Specifically at 4 since the 2015 WC. So not exactly a complete representation of his record (I think he's batted mostly 3 since Clarke, Watson and Bailey left the scene). In any case though yeah he hasn't exactly lit the world on fire in ODIs since his super hot streak prior to and during the 2015 WC.
FTR I think that was referring to Maxwell.
 

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