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*Official* 1st Test - England v India - Keep all Discussion Here Please!

aussie_beater

State Vice-Captain
Bangar an opener ? ....he's a lousy batter and a bowler as well.Just because he got some wickets in that crappy pitch in Southampton does not mean anything.
 

full_length

U19 Vice-Captain
yeah yeah, I'll carry it for a while :P

now aussie_beater, nobody playing for India is crap. Not after getting all the way in there.
I was just saying there are better options available. I agree with you- I just dont see the relevance of a good bowling performance to the opening spot. Hell, Ganguly took 3 wickets too. (and i think in that ground last year the Aussies were bowled out for 97 by the county team.) He could play himself as an allrounder if thats the only criterion. Look at the guys waiting on the sidelines...

Bottomline is: India needs 350 + scores in EACH first innnings in the tour. If they dont do that, they gotta come up with a huge performance in the second innings each time.
That means that the openers cant afford to fail. See what the alternative means- in each 1st innings atleast two of the top four batsmen must score centuries, and one more atleast close to it. If there is a first innings failure, ALL four must get centuries (or someone make a double..) A Sehwag/Mongia with Jaffer can lighten that load better than Bangar with Jaffer.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Shock horror probe - Gough injures knee and is out of the first test.

Joins Tudor, Jug-ears and Trescothick on the sidelines.

Looks like I'll get my wish (Corky) but not in the way I would have wanted it.
 

aussie_beater

State Vice-Captain
And Sehwag gets a nod to open for India alongwith Jaffer.That's what Wright said today.

All my predictions are coming true...haha. Next Tarot reading will be at 0700 hours :D
 

Anil

International Coach
Gough is out too. This is definitely India's best chance. Another good news is that Sehwag is set to open the innings in place of (hopefully) Das. Jaffer and Sehwag make for India's best opening bet right now.

Cork, Hoggard, Flintoff and Jones hopefully won't be as effective as say, Gough, Caddick, Hoggard, Tudor and Flintoff. The Indian lineup should be:

Jaffer
Sehwag
Laxman
Tendulkar
Ganguly
Dravid
Ratra
Khan
Nehra
Agarkar(H Singh)
Kumble(Bangar)

Looks good atleast on paper. The bowling is not too great though(I guess it never was, to begin with). It will be a close call and I think the first team to blink(batting collapse or the like) will probably lose.
 

scorpio

U19 Cricketer
sehwag opening is the most stupid thing i havee heard in a while

In banglore 3rd test he was all over the place against caddick and hoggard and andy.
Yeah he is a good bat but still needs to go a long way in terms of technique.

When will our team stop pushin middle order batsmen to open and screw them ?
damn
 

aussie_beater

State Vice-Captain
Sehwag would be much better then Bangar.He has got the technique necessary and that's all that matters.There is no such thing as a specialist opener in the Indian line up now.Yes Bangar may have opened the innings in domestic matches regularly but how does that count when all those matches are played against some sub-standard bowling in nothing more then dust-bowls.
 

scorpio

U19 Cricketer
Sehwag would be much better then Bangar.He has got the technique necessary and that's all that matters.There is no such thing as a specialist opener in the Indian line up now.Yes Bangar may have opened the innings in domestic matches regularly but how does that count when all those matches are played against some sub-standard bowling in nothing more then dust-bowls.

did u see the banglore test ? did u see how sehwag struggled against hogg and caddick ?

i doubt if he has the tech to open on seeming wickets..
 

Anil

International Coach
Quote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sehwag opening is the most stupid thing i havee heard in a while

In banglore 3rd test he was all over the place against caddick and hoggard and andy.
Yeah he is a good bat but still needs to go a long way in terms of technique.

When will our team stop pushin middle order batsmen to open and screw them ?
damn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, Sehwag is not a natural opener. If you think that is a stupid choice, who would you pick to partner Jaffer? Bangar(hasn't shown much promise at the international level so far)...Das(hopelessly out of touch for quite a while now)...well, you run out of names at that point. I always felt that like Parthiv Patel, Gautham Gambhir should have been given a chance in this touring squad. Well, he wasn't, so these are the available names. Dravid and Laxman, two other possibilities have made themselves unavailable for this particular task. That leaves Mongia or Sehwag, of whom I think Sehwag is the better choice. For all the indiscreet stroke play he is accused of, he has the greatest ability in this team apart from Sachin and Laxman to change the complexion of a game in a short time. He also will have a demoralising effect on the bowlers once he gets going. Sure, he won't succeed every time he goes in to bat, but the Indian middle order is used to coming in the first 5-10 overs, so it won't be a lot of fresh strain on the middle order. On the other hand, if he succeeds, the middle order will walk in to a healthy score and bowlers running out of ideas. I feel, given the options we have, the pros of opening with Sehwag more than outweigh the cons.
 

Anil

International Coach
Consider the alternative of Das. He will consume 150 balls, will have a score of 30 and then get out to a injudicious stroke. What is the point? Atleast after seeing off the opening overs, an opener should push the score along through singles or twos(atleast) so that the opposing bowlers don't get the feeling that they are on top.

Bangar at best, is a middle order batsman who has yet to prove himself there.
 

aussie_beater

State Vice-Captain
did u see the banglore test ? did u see how sehwag struggled against hogg and caddick ?

i doubt if he has the tech to open on seeming wickets..
I think Sehwag has the technique but maybe not the temperament.And to my mind there is no one really better then him in the bench right now for India to fill the opening slot.Das is hopeless and Bangar hasn't shown much steel either.Jaffer is also fickle but he should get few more chances just like Das got so many.And one thing with Sehwag is that if he can get a feel of the pace of the wicket, then you have a match winner at hand.He can demoralise a bowling attack to such an extent that the middle order can enjoy their time in the middle without the pressure that's so common when they bat normally in tests.That's why India should try out this prospect and if it clicks, a lot of headache goes out the window.

As for Dravid or Laxman opening, I think its foolish to push them to do something that they themselves don't feel comfortable about.They have performed well in the middle order and there's no point in tinkering with that lineup.
 

scorpio

U19 Cricketer
let me tell u a story....

there was once a player called hemang badani. he was hailed as indias bevan..cool cucumber and like...

he performed really well...in one days

so the all knowing indian management blooded this talented lower middle order batsmen as (yeah u guessed it) opener against zimb.

on a seaming pitch he flopped. Got dropped next test. And till then what stood out was his unflappable temperament.
After this fiasco he ended up a no body and now has been forgotten..

i just hope sehwag doesnt go that way...
 

Anil

International Coach
Just because one player flops doesn't mean all others will. Sehwag atleast has the experience of opening for India in one dayers. He is too good a batsman to fade into oblivion even if there are a couple of failures as an opener. He can still come back to a middle order position.

Another thing, I don't think we can say that it is the end of the road for Badani. The middle order is performing well now, so it will be difficult for him to crack it, but he is still quite young, he could do well in domestic competition and be back in contention.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
OK, guys, let you be the judge.

Let's assume that Simon Jones is selected for the first test, on the grounds that he is a strike bowler.

That leaves White and Cork fighting for a single place. Their respective first-class records this season are as follows :

Batting
White 432 runs at 28.8
Cork 324 at 27.0

Bowling
White 10 wickets at 45.60
Cork 55 wickets at 16.67

Too close to call, eh? :D
 

Neil Pickup

Cricket Web Moderator
But White plays for Yorkshire...

Would hope Corky plays but I can see White being picked. Especially since he got two wickets in the Roses match.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
lol, Neil.

I have decided to invent my own swear word (I copied the idea from Viz a couple of years ago when they invented FITBIN, supposedly the naughtiest word of all time).

Well, here's a new one. If Corky is not picked, then I believe that FITBIN squared equals one GRAVENEY.
 

full_length

U19 Vice-Captain
I don't think Badani flopped.

I think he's amongst the top young players in India, right up there with Yuvaraj, Sehwag, and Kaif.
What's more, he's one chap who fits in straightaway in both forms of cricket, if people are interested in persisting with him.

I'm amazed at the way he's been treated. The selectors, and team management nowadays are impressive in this aspect: of showing faith. And they failed in the case of Badani.

Other players who have had a lousy deal are Ramesh and Murali Karthik.

I think Ramesh was sidelined because he mislead the team about his fitness levels, while Murali Karthik is a left arm spinner, and Ganguly probably thinks that breed shouldnt exist..

Badani should be brought back.

Perfect case for rotation policy. Of all international teams, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and Australia are the only ones that can successfuly implement rotation. India can do it with batsmen and spinners, Pakistan with pacemen, Australia and sri lanka with batsmen.

In India's case, that's especially true for ODIs. Then maybe we won't waste talent like Badani's. He's a class act.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Ahem.

As I intimated in a previous posting, the chairman of the England selectors is a total graveney. In fact, I wish the gravenying graveney would get the sack. How anyone in their right mind could pick that graveney White ahead of Corky has got to go and have a graveneying brain scan ASAP.

Come on England.
 

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