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New Zealand in Pakistan

Noumenon

U19 Vice-Captain
IIRC there has been one single person right wing terrorist act in NZ history (perhaps two if you count an anti-union bombing in the 1980s). Some right wing internet froth is not evidence of "crawling with radicalized white supremacists".
TBH, it's not for you to self-certify if your country isn't a hotbed of white rage and terror. People of color and visiting teams will decide that for themselves.
 

vandem

State Vice-Captain
TBH, it's not for you to self-certify if your country isn't a hotbed of white rage and terror. People of color and visiting teams will decide that for themselves.
Like I said above, I think most NZers would respect a decision made by another country not to tour NZ due to security risk.

But since the Mar 2019 "lone-wolf" mosque attack there have been tours to NZ from India, Bangladesh, West Indies and Pakistan and other teams. So I guess "People of color and visiting teams" have made their decision.
 

Noumenon

U19 Vice-Captain
Ok so why aren't you applying the same logic here
What logic? I am with NZ on making an independent assessment. If you read my first post, I am with Pakistan on their grievance that NZ failed to share the assessment that led to cancellation. Also to be noted is that these assessment are time-specific and time-sensitive, so if NZ does eventually share the info at a subsequent date, it may not mean much except as a CYA measure.
 

Burgey

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If you read my first post, I am with Pakistan on their grievance that NZ failed to share the assessment that led to cancellation.
Firstly, unlike what happened for so lonG in Pakistan, NZ’s govt is separate to its cricket team which therefore isn’t in a position to share intelligence with anyone. Secondly, even if you could, you don’t share intel with the govt of a country that’s harboured the Taliban and worse for decades.
 
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Apex Predator

U19 Debutant
What logic? I am with NZ on making an independent assessment. If you read my first post, I am with Pakistan on their grievance that NZ failed to share the assessment that led to cancellation. Also to be noted is that these assessment are time-specific and time-sensitive, so if NZ does eventually share the info at a subsequent date, it may not mean much except as a CYA measure.
New Zealand is part of 5 eyes alliance & pretty sure they can't share the intelligence input they received from either those countries. PCB is just making a fool outta themselves here.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
New Zealand is part of 5 eyes alliance & pretty sure they can't share the intelligence input they received from either those countries. PCB is just making a fool outta themselves here.
NZC receiving intelligence is different from the New Zealand Government receiving it though, for the reason Burgey just outlined. If they received it from the government directly you may be right, but if they got it from some other source it might be a different scenario.
 

Apex Predator

U19 Debutant
NZC receiving intelligence is different from the New Zealand Government receiving it though, for the reason Burgey just outlined. If they received it from the government directly you may be right, but if they got it from some other source it might be a different scenario.
Cricinfo indicated that the intelligence came from the west.. Now we all know which countries might have shared it to NZ Govt. Everything is well above NZCB's pay grade. That's why it is hilarious from PCB to blame it all on NZC
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
NZC receiving intelligence is different from the New Zealand Government receiving it though, for the reason Burgey just outlined. If they received it from the government directly you may be right, but if they got it from some other source it might be a different scenario.
NZ government is the one who advised NZC to pull out
 

Spark

Global Moderator
TBH, it's not for you to self-certify if your country isn't a hotbed of white rage and terror. People of color and visiting teams will decide that for themselves.
So NZ is safe, then? Given that ~no one has decided otherwise when deciding to visit...
 

SteveNZ

International Captain
What logic? I am with NZ on making an independent assessment. If you read my first post, I am with Pakistan on their grievance that NZ failed to share the assessment that led to cancellation. Also to be noted is that these assessment are time-specific and time-sensitive, so if NZ does eventually share the info at a subsequent date, it may not mean much except as a CYA measure.
Or, perhaps Pakistan could realise that there must have been cause behind the cancellation, and there must have been an assessment that there was danger to the players and the group as a whole. As I said in a previous post, it's not like we made this cancellation out on the lush green grasses at Lincoln. That squad was in Pakistan, fully intending to fulfill its commitment to the 8-match series. They quite obviously received intel or something that changed their minds. And whatever information that was - as someone else said - there's no time for heroes. No time for sentiment for a nation that's trying hard to turn their reputation around. Straight out.

If countries don't wish to tour NZ because of this white supremacy horse **** that you're rolling out, that's their prerogative. Bangladesh returned and felt comfortable doing so. They realised it was a one-off attack, made by a lone wolf - who might I remind you, wasn't a New Zealander. If any team doesn't feel safe, I 100% back their rights to not come here. Pakistan should too. I know it hurts, but it's how it is.
 

SteveNZ

International Captain
I keep hearing from Pakistan officials and ex players that NZ took a 'unilateral' approach. Well, yeah. Was there the expectation we'd seek Pakistan's advice and agreement on whether the country was safe or not?

Given that noumenon suggests NZ can't self-certify its apparent white supremacist leanings, I would imagine he'd understand that nor can Pakistan be expected to give any sort of rational viewpoint of whether it's safe to play cricket in their country.
 

The Hutt Rec

International Regular
Or, perhaps Pakistan could realise that there must have been cause behind the cancellation, and there must have been an assessment that there was danger to the players and the group as a whole. As I said in a previous post, it's not like we made this cancellation out on the lush green grasses at Lincoln. That squad was in Pakistan, fully intending to fulfill its commitment to the 8-match series. They quite obviously received intel or something that changed their minds. And whatever information that was - as someone else said - there's no time for heroes. No time for sentiment for a nation that's trying hard to turn their reputation around. Straight out.

If countries don't wish to tour NZ because of this white supremacy horse **** that you're rolling out, that's their prerogative. Bangladesh returned and felt comfortable doing so. They realised it was a one-off attack, made by a lone wolf - who might I remind you, wasn't a New Zealander. If any team doesn't feel safe, I 100% back their rights to not come here. Pakistan should too. I know it hurts, but it's how it is.
Also worth pointing out the Bangladesh cricket team weren’t actually being targeted in that terrible attack. It was a case of wrong place, wrong time for them.

Not the case in this instance from what we’ve heard, the threat was specifically against the NZ cricket team.
 

nzfan

International Regular
Still don't get why is it hard to understand that we had to pull out due to credible source of threat.

We recently played in Bangladesh. If we were that afraid of playing in sub continent we could have pulled out from Bangladesh too right? Same security team assessed Bangladesh as well and security arrangements in Bangladesh was similar like in Pakistan. Our govt will not come under any pressure to reveal details of the threat. They'll do when they think time is right no matter how much Pakistan media and govt speculates.
 

Noumenon

U19 Vice-Captain
New Zealand is part of 5 eyes alliance & pretty sure they can't share the intelligence input they received from either those countries. PCB is just making a fool outta themselves here.
Assuming you are an Indian, there's no need for you to pretend like the Five Eyes and Multiple Anus Alliance is some impregnable and divine clause that allows NZ to bail out on tours without any justification.
 

Noumenon

U19 Vice-Captain
Still don't get why is it hard to understand that we had to pull out due to credible source of threat.
It's hard to understand because NZC and NZ government has shown zero inclination to share the nature and details of the threat.
 

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