New Zealand in Pakistan

[RossTaylorsBox]

I am sure they are not that soft. They might not want to visit Pakistan in future but they are professional cricketers & must have some sort of mental toughness to deal with these things.

Yeah but this is different than normal sporting pressure. Some players just aren't equipped to deal with it.

 

[Fusion]

I can't fault Pakistanis for feeling frustrated. NZ gets to leave the security situation in Pakistan is literally the reality there.

This. As I stated before, I completely understand why NZ (or anyone else) would abandon the tour if they feel there's a credible threat (and even if Pakistan feels that threat can be contained). I would have wanted my board to do the same thing at the first sign of trouble. However, one can also be understanding towards the over the top reaction from Pakistan (and it's definitely over the top). This is a terrible blow to Pakistan cricket. Seemingly 10 years of hard work to bring cricket back is all in danger of being lost. That's not NZ's problem, but just pointing out why emotions are fraught.

 

[ImpatientLime]

They realised it was a one-off attack, made by a lone wolf - who might I remind you, wasn't a New Zealander.

this is utterly irrelevant. I've seen it said a few times now. the nationality of any said perpetrators or potential perpetrators doesn't matter.

 

[honestbharani]

This. As I stated before, I completely understand why NZ (or anyone else) would abandon the tour if they feel there's a credible threat (and even if Pakistan feels that threat can be contained). I would have wanted my board to do the same thing at the first sign of trouble. However, one can also be understanding towards the over the top reaction from Pakistan (and it's definitely over the top). This is a terrible blow to Pakistan cricket. Seemingly 10 years of hard work to bring cricket back is all in danger of being lost. That's not NZ's problem, but just pointing out why emotions are fraught.

It is absolutely understandable when general public, ex-players, maybe even some current players are reacting the way they did. What has been disappointing is how people of responsibility like the captain, the board, the chairman and various ministers have been reacting. I suppose ministers are ultimately politicians and will politick at every available opportunity like any other politician around the world, but the others were very disappointing.

 

[Teja.]

This is absolutely gutting for Pakistan cricket and cricket fans in general. There was lots of anticipation and hope for the success of this series and the positive consequences of that for cricket in Pakistan

I felt that the overwhelming public sentiment and goodwill across the board would lie with the PCB and Pakistani fans when NZ pulled out. I don't even care that over emotional Pakistani cricketers tweeted a few things.

What truly changed how this incident is viewed is the bizarre and weird reactions of high level executives of Pakistan Govt and PCB who really should know better.

Rameez Raja, without even waiting a few days for more information, threatened to take NZ to the ICC for leaving the country due to security reasons which was unbelievably dire. He is the CEO of PCB and has not stopped tweeting like a snarky socialite aunty despite that. When Pakistan is under security scanner, making such ridiculous statements will just make it harder to convince countries to tour Pakistan as the image it creates is that the Pakistan admin will not give them the benefit of doubt and create ruckus at ICC over any discomfort issues.

The Pakistan internal security/interior minister alleging that the pull out was a conspiracy from external forces against Pakistan is also grim stuff. The players fully intended to play as evidenced by them going and spending one week in heavy restrictions in Pakistan. They did not do this as some practical joke. The NZC and the players had no choice in the matter.

The behaviour of PCB and Pakistan govt has turned with from a very rough but understandable situation to a complete PR disaster. People in high level executive positions should be more circumspect and wait for a better vantage point instead of creating an embarrassing situation for all parties involved.

 

[Flem274*]

cricinfo certainly seem to know where they get their clicks.

it sucks for pakistan. by all anecdotes they were really good with fans on their tour here last summer. nzc has to follow 5 eyes advice though. that's literally what they're there for, not that cricinfo seem to acknowledge with their single minded pursuit of the PCB sympathiser angle.

 

[Flem274*]

This is absolutely gutting for Pakistan cricket and cricket fans in general. There was lots of antiicipation and hope for the success of this series and the positive consequences of that for cricket in Pakistan

I felt that the overwhelming public sentiment and goodwill across the board would lie with the PCB and Pakistani fans when NZ pulled out. I don't even care that over emotional Pakistani cricketers tweeted a few things.

What truly changed how this incident is viewed is the bizarre and weird reactions of high level executives of Pakistan Govt and PCB who really should know better.

Rameez Raja, without even waiting a few days for more information, threatened to take NZ to the ICC for leaving the country due to security reasons which was unbelievably dire. He is the CEO of PCB and has not stopped tweeting like a snarky socialite aunty on twitter despite that. When Pakistan is under security scanner, making such ridiculous statements will just make it harder to convince countries to tour Pakistan as the imagine it creates is that the Pakistan admin will not give them the benefit of doubt and create ruckus at ICC over any discomfort issues.

The Pakistan internal security/interior minister alleging that the pull out was a conspiracy from external forces against Pakistan is also grim stuff. The players fully intended to play as evidenced by them going and spending one week in heavy restrictions in Pakistan. They did not do this as some practical joke. The NZC and the players had no choice in the matter.

The behaviour of PCB and Pakistan govt has turned with from a very rough but understandable situation to a complete PR disaster. People in high level executive positions should be more circumspect and wait for a better vantage point instead of creating an embarrassing situation for all parties involved.

I think the PCB are getting off very lightly in the press tbh, but I think a few boards will be watching this reaction with some alarm if this is how they're going to behave when there is an issue.

 

[honestbharani]

cricinfo certainly seem to know where they get their clicks.

it sucks for pakistan. by all anecdotes they were really good with fans on their tour here last summer. nzc has to follow 5 eyes advice though. that's literally what they're there for, not that cricinfo seem to acknowledge with their single minded pursuit of the PCB sympathiser angle.

It is completely covered by the two Pak writers in their payroll too, who have decided it is time to shed any semblance of being neutral journalists. The entire commentary and the article yesterday were horrible IMO. I am starting to wonder if Dobell meant some other bias when he virtue signalled his way out of there.

Like they have some other writers on their payroll too but no one wants to write about this, I guess. I wonder who is their NZ correspondent.

 

[Flem274*]

It is completely covered by the two Pak writers in their payroll too, who have decided it is time to shed any semblance of being neutral journalists. The entire commentary and the article yesterday were horrible IMO. I am starting to wonder if Dobell meant some other bias when he virtue signalled his way out of there.

Like they have some other writers on their payroll too but no one wants to write about this, I guess. I wonder who is their NZ correspondent.

They used take articles purposed for NZ media from Andrew Alderson with adaptations to suit a global audience sometimes but NZ don't have one now I believe. The closest proponent NZ has is probably Kimber, not that cricket media should be measured by cheerleader representatives.

Anecdotally our public seem overwhelmingly fine with the withdrawal. Some wonder why we even went in the first place given the chaos across the border and Osama hiding out for a decade in Pakistan. We just had a supermarket ISIS attack, Auckland is in lockdown and we're still in the shadow of Christchurch. No one here has any stomach for risking NZ lives over a few cricket games.

This was probably salvageable at a later date in neutral territory if the PCB calmed tf down, but as things stand I wouldn't be surprised if NZ flag the tests next year if the PCB keep this up. NZC do not need the PCB, so if the business relationship becomes difficult then the boards will go their seperate ways imo.

 

[honestbharani]

They used take articles purposed for NZ media from Andrew Alderson with adaptations to suit a global audience sometimes but NZ don't have one now I believe. The closest proponent NZ has is probably Kimber, not that cricket media should be measured by cheerleader representatives.

Anecdotally our public seem overwhelmingly fine with the withdrawal. Some wonder why we even went in the first place given the chaos across the border and Osama hiding out for a decade in Pakistan. We just had a supermarket ISIS attack, Auckland is in lockdown and we're still in the shadow of Christchurch. No one here has any stomach for risking NZ lives over a few cricket games.

This was probably salvageable at a later date in neutral territory if the PCB calmed tf down, but as things stand I wouldn't be surprised if NZ flag the tests next year if the PCB keep this up. NZC do not need the PCB, so if the business relationship becomes difficult then the boards will go their seperate ways imo.

I dunno if Pakistan think they can fund everything with the Chinese money but these are dangerous tactics. I mean, if they tried to be more reasonable, I think a compromise could have been found and maybe NZC could have even paid some money to them as it happened this late. And possibly played the series next year in the UAE. The problem is, like most things in India and Pakistan, media image is a thing and I do not see Rameez or PCB actually seeing sense and backing down.

 

[Teja.]

cricinfo certainly seem to know where they get their clicks.

it sucks for pakistan. by all anecdotes they were really good with fans on their tour here last summer. nzc has to follow 5 eyes advice though. that's literally what they're there for, not that cricinfo seem to acknowledge with their single minded pursuit of the PCB sympathiser angle.

People don't seem to understand that NZ cannot make any decisions to reveal intelligence from 5 eyes without prior approval of other parties. We may get a few snippets but the full intelligence being revealed is highly unlikely considering i) Jeopardising or endangering vital intelligence sources to equalize karma over the cancellation of a sportsball match is stupid ii) NZ likely does not have the leverage over other superpower intelligence countries in the group to get such clearances for releasing the full information anyway and iii) Pakistan foreign policy has not been aligned with the western bloc for several years which is just an amoral fact.

 

[Flem274*]

I'm guessing the PCB and Pakistani government carry on is for their own domestic audience. If you look like the wronged party, awkward questions like "how come NZ government were happy with your arrangements until the 11th hour, upon which they became so alarmed they cancelled on the spot and we still have no idea where the team actually is?" don't get asked by your own citizens.

 

[Aritro]

Way too much speculation, not nearly enough information.

I blame India for suppressing the details of the security threat and ruining this thread.

 

[Burgey]

People don't seem to understand that NZ cannot make any decisions to reveal intelligence from 5 eyes without prior approval of other parties. We may get a few snippets but the full intelligence being revealed is highly unlikely considering i) Jeopardising or endangering vital intelligence sources to equalize karma over the cancellation of a sportsball match is stupid ii) NZ likely does not have the leverage over other superpower intelligence countries in the group to get such clearances for releasing the full information anyway and iii) Pakistan foreign policy has not been aligned with the western bloc for several years which is just an amoral fact.

I find it ****ing bizarre that there ar people who think they’re entitled to be given any foreign govt intel in a situation like this. You’d have to be brain dead to expect to get it.

 

[Burgey]

Might explain their reluctance to share info with PCB and the Pakistani authorities until their players are safe and sound on a flight back home

Nah, it’s just a fact of intelligence services that countries don’t share their info very often, if at all

 

[Burgey]

Assuming you are an Indian, there's no need for you to pretend like the Five Eyes and Multiple Anus Alliance is some impregnable and divine clause that allows NZ to bail out on tours without any justification.

This is like a type of mushroom - a **** take.

 

[smash84]

Pak reaction has been over the top unfortunately. Yes, this will set back pak cricket a few years (in terms of having cricket at home) but they've seen worse days and this is not the first time this is happening.

It really sucks for the fans and for PCB's revenues (I am assuming they would get lots of money from domestic sponsors) but there's not much they can do about it, especially with the Afghanistan situation next door which is still evolving.

 

[Test fan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439226198194745344

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Dumb post by Hafeez

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

That was not a rational thinking post by the Professor.

Emotions are high right now. I understand that, but let’s at least be diplomatic about this.
The milk has already been spoilt.