Mike Procter interview

[silentstriker]

Mike Procter: 'What's a Test career compared to the suffering of millions?' | Specials | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

Seems like the Harbhajan incident pretty much ended his career in cricket.

 

[Jager]

I dislike Gavaskar even more now. I've read a few articles about him playing the race card when there was quite obviously nothing racist at all. I had never heard the story about the South African players taking a stand against apartheid, it was great to hear for me as I always worried that they might have supported the regime in their playing days.

 

[fredfertang]

I'm a little surprised that Procter underplays that story. When the incident happened the end was in sight. International opposition to apartheid was becoming overwhelming and the last hope was that an invitation to send a touring party to Australia in 1971/72 would not be withdrawn. The South African Cricket Association knew that if the tour was to go ahead then something would have to change and they sought permission from the Government to select the two leading non-white cricketers for the touring party. They were, of course, turned down.

As a last throw of the dice the players themselves decided to make that public demonstration in support of the Association. The stage they chose was Newlands where, as part of the tenth anniversary celebrations of the founding of the Republic, a match was to be played between the Currie Cup Champions, Transvaal, and a Rest of South Africa side. The touring team for Australia was due to be announced at the end of the game. The initial plan had been to simply boycott the match but they took a rather different tack in the end.

The Transvaal side batted first and Procter opened the bowling for the Rest. He sent down the first delivery of the match to Barry Richards who took a comfortable single from it. Immediately the single was completed all of the players headed straight back to the pavilion leaving both umpires and the large crowd confused. What the players then did was to hand a statement to the press box after which they returned to the middle and the game continued.

The statement said: "We cricketers feel that the time has come for an expression of our views. We fully support the South African Cricket Association's application to include non-whites on the tour to Australia if good enough and, furthermore, subscribe to merit being the only criteria on the cricket field".

 

[Himannv]

Very interesting stuff. Didn't know they actually walked out of a match temporarily to make that point.

 

[CWB304]

I dislike Gavaskar even more now. I've read a few articles about him playing the race card when there was quite obviously nothing racist at all. I had never heard the story about the South African players taking a stand against apartheid, it was great to hear for me as I always worried that they might have supported the regime in their playing days.

The sad truth is that one of the greatest batsmen of all time is a nasty piece of work. He's the real racist - just read his autobiography in which he used the behaviour of the Kingston crowd in 1976 to justify his view that Black people "still belonged to the jungles and forests". An all-round slimeball. Not surprising at all that he should have been one of Harbhajan's most ardent defenders.

As for Procter, the Pollocks, Barry Richards, Garth Le Roux and the other South Africans who played in the era of the apartheid ban, I have enormous sympathy for them and am unaware of anything to suggest that they shared Gavaskar's repulsive views, victimised or took advantage of the oppressed peoples of SA or even supported the policies of the regime they lived under.

For Gavaskar to accuse Procter of racism in this instance was not only monstrously hypocritical but a textbook case of projecting one's own repellent traits onto others. Thank goodness his double standards were recognised and pointed out at the time.

 

[zaremba]

What an excellent interview, and it's interesting to hear what a well-balanced guy he is. But there's a real sadness to it. When he's asked what his highlight is, and he says, "winning the tests", and you immediately know precisely which series he must be talking about because his Test career was so bloody short, that rams it home. What a pity that such a great player should miss out on such a great career, and that the world should have missed out on it too. But as he himself is man enough to point out, what's that compared with the suffering of a nation?


p.s. I was just wondering if there was any footage of him bowling on YouTube. And no marks for guessing which CW legend has posted some.

 

[Arachnodouche]

The sad truth is that one of the greatest batsmen of all time is a nasty piece of work. He's the real racist - just read his autobiography in which he used the behaviour of the Kingston crowd in 1976 to justify his view that Black people "still belonged to the jungles and forests". An all-round slimeball. Not surprising at all that he should have been one of Harbhajan's most ardent defenders.

As for Procter, the Pollocks, Barry Richards, Garth Le Roux and the other South Africans who played in the era of the apartheid ban, I have enormous sympathy for them and am unaware of anything to suggest that they shared Gavaskar's repulsive views, victimised or took advantage of the oppressed peoples of SA or even supported the policies of the regime they lived under.

For Gavaskar to accuse Procter of racism in this instance was not only monstrously hypocritical but a textbook case of projecting one's own repellent traits onto others. Thank goodness his double standards were recognised and pointed out at the time.

Agreed. Latent racism exists across a wide strata of Indian society, propped up by the ancient caste hierarchy (which, unfortunately, a large section of educated Indians still subscribe to). It assumes the guise of reverse discrimination and playing the victim when we're confronted with altogether different cultural mores and mannerisms, and misinterpret it as a slight against us. I've never had any doubt that Harbhajan, the kind of semi-educated simpleton that he is, actually called Symonds a monkey, post whatever transpired in the ODI series in India with crowds in Gujarat actually coming in with monkey masks and placards. To see our "God of cricket" absolve himself of all moral responsibility in the proceedings that followed was nothing short of disgusting.

 

[silentstriker]

Definitely would have been nice to see some Indian players come out against the fans who did that. They carry a lot of power in India.

 

[Cevno]

Agreed. Latent racism exists across a wide strata of Indian society, propped up by the ancient caste hierarchy (which, unfortunately, a large section of educated Indians still subscribe to). It assumes the guise of reverse discrimination and playing the victim when we're confronted with altogether different cultural mores and mannerisms, and misinterpret it as a slight against us. I've never had any doubt that Harbhajan, the kind of semi-educated simpleton that he is, actually called Symonds a monkey, post whatever transpired in the ODI series in India with crowds in Gujarat actually coming in with monkey masks and placards. To see our "God of cricket" absolve himself of all moral responsibility in the proceedings that followed was nothing short of disgusting.

Doesn't that actually make him more likely to have called him Maa - Ki ? Monkey not the first word that comes to mind for a "Semi - Educated Simpleton" coming from Punjab. Maa Ki however is on their lips straightaway.

Don't see what point you are trying to make in the first case too. Casteism is somewhat different to Racism, and yes unfortunately that still exists here(though has reduced). But i don't get how is that even connected to the issue. Or how what happened with the Crowds was connected with what Harbhajan would have said in Australia.

 

[Uppercut]

Casteism is somewhat different to Racism

Hmm, how so?

 

[Cevno]

Hmm, how so?

Race and Caste are two different things to begin with. While Racism is based on physical attributes to a large extent, caste is based on religious sub - divisions and where you were born.

Easier to get away from such discrimination once you move place to place or by changing religion/name, than say something which is based on your looks as it isn't picked up straightaway or doesn't exist everywhere. Not saying one is better than the other, but it is somewhat different and nothing to do with a International context or this instance.

Btw , while Inter - Caste relations and inter mingling may not be perfect here, discrimination based on Caste has largely reduced now with large amounts of positive discrimination/protection from laws/political power etc.. Reservation in the constitution for Tribals/Dalit's to begin with and equal franchise for all since 1947 has also helped. Though thousands of years old discrimination still manifests itself in major poverty in some castes. Again probably irrelevant to this discussion though.

 

[Jono]

Definitely would have been nice to see some Indian players come out against the fans who did that. They carry a lot of power in India.

Yeah I strongly agree with this.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Race and Caste are two different things to begin with. While Racism is based on physical attributes to a large extent, caste is based on religious sub - divisions and where you were born.

You and I, as Indians (presumably) know that that's not all there is to it. It might be more subliminal these days, but the undercurrent has always been there, and it's not just a token Vedic sub-division.

My point was that nobody should be surprised that an otherwise seemingly intelligent guy like Gavaskar can and does stoop to the levels he does. India is an extremely complex society, and things that may seem at odds to foreign eyes do in fact run on parallel tracks.

 

[Cevno]

You and I, as Indians (presumably) know that that's not all there is to it. It might be more subliminal these days, but the undercurrent has always been there, and it's not just a token Vedic sub-division.

My point was that nobody should be surprised that an otherwise seemingly intelligent guy like Gavaskar can and does stoop to the levels he does. India is an extremely complex society, and things that may seem at odds to foreign eyes do in fact run on parallel tracks.

Gavaskar is overly patriotic and particularly bitter with respect to Australia and England for whatever reasons during his playing days and some of the things he says to that respect these days are cringeworthy. That does have naught to do with Casteism, though.

He is fine when he talks about the Windies for example and even seems to love the place, but his other side comes out when you are talking about some other countries, and the reasoning he then gives to justify his opinions is again stretched. Meanwhile, someone like Tony Greig seems the opposite after his ICL experience.

Same happened during this incident, with him making the racism charge on Proctor, which was ludicrous and without basis. But that doesn't mean either that Proctor made the right decision, based on the evidence available to him which was One man's word vs Another.

 

[Cevno]

Yeah I strongly agree with this.

Yeah, agree too. Though, tbf both teams quickly issued a statement condemning that incident, would have been good if the players had come out stronger individually too.

Indian crowds need to be sensitised in that respect, especially in terms of international context in sporting events and everything helps when coming from their Heroes.

 

[smash84]

You and I, as Indians (presumably) know that that's not all there is to it. It might be more subliminal these days, but the undercurrent has always been there, and it's not just a token Vedic sub-division.

My point was that nobody should be surprised that an otherwise seemingly intelligent guy like Gavaskar can and does stoop to the levels he does. India is an extremely complex society, and things that may seem at odds to foreign eyes do in fact run on parallel tracks.

agree with Cevno though.

From what I do gather (having had Indian friends over a period of time) this thing has come down over time. However removing something in a few years that has been around for thousands of years is a little difficult. It will take a little more time to do away with it I suppose.

 

[Rasimione]

Having read the interview, im reminded by what hate leads to, more hate. Being black myself i have never faced direct rasicm but the effect still remains. In black areas the inequalities are still huge, its going to take a longer period to change things. All the black africans to play for the Proteas have had to have played at traditional white schools to make it. And as for the era of Procter and co, wow the team would have been awsome. Rice and Procter as allrounders, Le Roux and Jèffries as the spearheads. Add Vince Van Der Bijl and the bowling would be legendary.

 

[kyear2]

Good read, must have been hard for the S.A players but as Procter pointed it, it was nothing compared to what the people of the country went through. On Gavaskar though, he can be cantankerous at best, and well we sometimes see the worse.

 

[aussie tragic]

Why didn't England pick him in 1990?

34 doesn't seem that old for someone with such a great record (21,936 runs @ 36.01 and 1417 wkts @ 19.53)

Other England bowlers in 1990:

Devon Malcom (45 wkts @ 32.77), Agnus Fraser (37 wkts @ 22.10), Gladstone Small (25 wkts @ 34.60) and Paul Defreitas (14 wkts @ 38.00)....

Especially when they tried 2 allrounders...

Chris Lewis (70 runs @ 14.00 and 12 wkts @ 38.83)
David Capel (81 runs @ 13.50 and 9 wkts @ 48.60)

 

[fredfertang]

It was 1980 when he became available and we were due to tour West Indies, and had Procter been selected that would have been that