Middle order face off! Lara AND Tendulkar Vs. Richards AND Chappell

[weldone]

The point is that this bowling line-up does not need plan B. It is good enough to blast out the opposition on any surface.

Generally speaking, I agree.

But it's not always 'necessary' when the middle-order consists of Lara, Tendulkar, Waugh (I will definitely have Ponting replaced by him) and Kallis. Yes, that pace bowling lineup would blast out the opposition on any surface more often than not. But to say that they would never need a plan B will be to insult the batting prowess of the above 4. Add to that, the occasional firepower of Sehwag and Gilchrist (though I think 95% of the times these 2 would be owned by Marshall, Hadlee and co.).

I still feel if this team had a Murali-esque spinner or at least an Akram-esque LAF the attack would feel more 'complete'.

 

[smash84]

Interesting post, Smalishah. It is possible that even the slightest advantage for either side in terms of conditions could result in a one-sided contest because both sets of personnel are so good at executing their skills.

Out of interest, did Donald bowl reverse swing? He has a very good record in India, though that could have more to do with Indian batsmen generally being less comfortable against top-quality pace bowling. McGrath could get the ball to reverse as well.

McGrath could reverse swing the ball that much I know and have seen him do that a number of times but not very regularly. Nowhere near what Imran would be able to do for the old timers. Couldn't follow Donald's career much tbh but am pretty sure he was not known for reverse swing.

 

[vcs]

Generally speaking, I agree.

But it's not always 'necessary' when the middle-order consists of Lara, Tendulkar, Waugh (I will definitely have Ponting replaced by him) and Kallis. Yes, that pace bowling lineup would blast out the opposition on any surface more often than not. But to say that they would never need a plan B will be to insult the batting prowess of the above 4. Add to that, the occasional firepower of Sehwag and Gilchrist (though I think 95% of the times these 2 would be owned by Marshall, Hadlee and co.).

I still feel if this team had a Murali-esque spinner or at least an Akram-esque LAF the attack would feel more 'complete'.

Yeah, it feels as if Kallis has been shoe-horned into that middle-order slot. Waugh is much more of a natural at batting in the middle-order and shepherding the tail, resurrecting a collapse etc. It's a shootout for the No. 3 position between Kallis and Ponting, with Kallis's extra bowling being the tie-breaker IMO.

 

[smash84]

Generally speaking, I agree.

But it's not always 'necessary' when the middle-order consists of Lara, Tendulkar, Waugh (I will definitely have Ponting replaced by him) and Kallis. Yes, that pace bowling lineup would blast out the opposition on any surface more often than not. But to say that they would never need a plan B will be to insult the batting prowess of the above 4. Add to that, the occasional firepower of Sehwag and Gilchrist (though I think 95% of the times these 2 would be owned by Marshall, Hadlee and co.).

I still feel if this team had a Murali-esque spinner or at least an Akram-esque LAF the attack would feel more 'complete'.

Agree with you on the Akram LAF or a quality spinner would make this side even stronger but already this attack is so damn strong even if somewhat unidimensional although not completely. Hadlee, Lillee, and Imran were very different bowlers tbh. Those two relied more on leg cutters and out swingers to get wickets. Imran relied more on in-swingers and in-dippers to get batsmen out.

And yeah I also do get the feeling that Gilly and Sehwag would get owned by Marshall, Hadlee and Co most of the times. I can't see them playing their shots so easily against these guys. I can never forget Wasim Akram's quote on Marshall "MM could pick up a batsman's weakness in two deliveries."

 

[weldone]

It's a shootout for the No. 3 position between Kallis and Ponting, with Kallis's extra bowling being the tie-breaker IMO.

Pretty much.

All of Lara, Tendulkar, Waugh and Kallis have played big knocks against top quality pace bowlers at some point or the other. So, it is not necessary that all of them will fail all the time while facing Hadlee, Marshall, Imran, Lillee and Botham. Sehwag or Gilchrist might come up with some occasional gems too (I personally won't put much money on Hayden though). In fact, I believe it'll be more or less an even contest between this batting and this bowling probably slightly tilting towards the bowlers.

 

[hang on]

The thing with roads is that it even makes the spin slower. It makes the ball lose that zip and bite which makes raging turners absolute mines to bat on. So roads and green tops to the old timers and turners to the new generation. Might help the new generation balance to include one of Wasim or WAqar to at least add the dimension of reverse swing



The point is that this bowling line-up does not need plan B. It is good enough to blast out the opposition on any surface. Only on a rank turner will the new generation blow them away quicker.



Murali and Warne are the trump cards and on a spin wicket the new timers will take it. BUT on green tops and absolute roads I will back the old timers to win it. The new timers faced reverse swing but check out Wasim and Waqar's and Imran's records on roads to see why it is so lethal. Besides Miandad and Gavaskar are some of the best players of spin of all time. Salim Malik was the first batsman I remember who really dominated Warne and he was a touch below Miandad in playing against spinners.

interesting points, smalishah. the only thing is that donald and mcgrath were rather good on roads too! their record in india is rather good.

 

[smash84]

interesting points, smalishah. the only thing is that donald and mcgrath were rather good on roads too! their record in india is rather good.

by roads I meant the Pakistani roads which are actually far flatter than the Indian roads. McGrath has an average of 30 in pakistan. And donald played all of 2 tests in pakistan but his average is 32 in Pakistan.

OTOH Imran averages 19 in Pakistan and Malcolm Marshall averages less than 21.5 there.

 

[Bun]

no contest really... the 90s and 00s gang will have the eighties for breakfast, lunch and dinner...

 

[smash84]

no contest really... the 90s and 00s gang will have the eighties for breakfast, lunch and dinner...

your statement actually made me lol

could you please care to elaborate Bun..........

 

[shankar]

how about
Saqlain on those indian wickets????? He gave sachin a pretty good run for his money

Yeah, Saqlain and Kumble to complete the quartet would be pretty good

 

[Cruxdude]

Have only seen Lara and Sachin live so voted for them. Would be happy to watch any combination of the 4 mentioned though.

 

[Bun]

your statement actually made me lol

could you please care to elaborate Bun..........

that aussie contingent alone kicks ass... man this core group fetched aussies an above 140 pointer in icc rankings, whcih is right up there with the likes of bradman's avg and rajnikanth....

add to that the best modern day batsman in form of tendulkar and second best (arguably) in lara, two spin wizards, greatest ever seen in warne and murali....

man I have big time admiration for the windies squad of 80s but they'd be fried squid for these modern masters....

 

[G.I.Joe]

that aussie contingent alone kicks ass... man this core group fetched aussies an above 140 pointer in icc rankings, whcih is right up there with the likes of bradman's avg and rajnikanth....

add to that the best modern day batsman in form of tendulkar and second best (arguably) in lara, two spin wizards, greatest ever seen in warne and murali....

man I have big time admiration for the windies squad of 80s but they'd be fried squid for these modern masters....

 

[smash84]

that aussie contingent alone kicks ass... man this core group fetched aussies an above 140 pointer in icc rankings, whcih is right up there with the likes of bradman's avg and rajnikanth....

add to that the best modern day batsman in form of tendulkar and second best (arguably) in lara, two spin wizards, greatest ever seen in warne and murali....

man I have big time admiration for the windies squad of 80s but they'd be fried squid for these modern masters....

haha...........fried squid.........Gavaskar would be leaving McGrath and Donald deliveries all day long and Viv will smash them all over the park. Miandad and Gavaskar will take care of the spinners and smash them to all corners of the park.

The old timers will then come in and blast away the nil-technique newbies and win the match by an innings.........

that is the end of the match

 

[Blaze 18]

I'd have Steve Waugh ahead of Ponting in that side. Got to fit in Wasim Akram somewhere in that side, too. Maybe in place of Kallis.

 

[Teja.]

Sehwag
Hayden
Ponting
Tendulkar
Kallis - 5
Gilchrist
Pollock - 2
Muralitharan - 4
Warne - 3
McGrath - 1

would probably be my side for the 90s and 00s. Get in Donald for Warne depending on surface. Close call between Ponting and Lara. Tempted to get Ponting to open, Bring Lara in at no.3 and drop Hayden too.

 

[Howe_zat]

Sehwag
Hayden
Ponting
Tendulkar
Kallis - 5
Gilchrist
Pollock - 2
Muralitharan - 4
Warne - 3
McGrath - 1

would probably be my side for the 90s and 00s. Get in Donald for Warne depending on surface. Close call between Ponting and Lara. Tempted to get Ponting to open, Bring Lara in at no.3 and drop Hayden too.

Alternatively you could go ahead and just pick eleven players. No need to be so pretentiously unconventional.

 

[Teja.]

,

Sehwag
Hayden
Ponting
Tendulkar
Lara
Gilchrist
Pollock - 3
Warne - 4
Donald - 2
Murali - 5
McGrath - 1

That changes things completely. I got Donald in and that means I don't need Kallis' bowling considering I've 2 workhorse ATG spinners. So I drop Kallis and get Lara in. Close to perfect squad itbt. The openers are a little weak by ATG XI standards, if one is being particularly picky.

 

[Teja.]

70s-80s squad,

Gavaskar
Richards
Richards - 6
Chappell
Border
Knott
Imran - 3
Kapil/Botham - 5
Hadlee - 1
Marshall - 2
Garner - 4

Kapil/Botham is an incredibly close call. I generally think Kapil had the superior career but Botham is a better cricketer for these exercises but since we're selecting specifically to play high quality opposition, It must be kept in mind that Kapil was a god against the WI team of the 70s and 80s.

Between the 2 sides, This one has superior batting due to better openers and depth, Gilchrist notwithstanding. The other side has better bowling, Five ATG bowlers, no less. But then again it should defo be kept in mind that Kapil raised his game against the toughest opposition while Pollock did the opposite. Still having Murali means the other side probably has better bowling.

I'd back this side overall.

 

[centurymaker]

need 5 specialist ATG bowlers against batsmen with superior techniques and who generally play on the back-foot.

Sehwag
Ponting - must open
Lara
Tendulkar
Waugh - he'll grind out more runs than anyone with the tail- plus he's an awesome captain
Gilchrist
Akram - his variety will be hard to cope with
Warne -
Donald - need a ATG with pace
Murali -
McGrath - he'll test their patience like no one else

12th man - Ambrose