Lions tour of New Zealand 2017

[BoyBrumby]

The BBC has just obligingly pointed out that it's a 41 man squad, not 37 as trailed.

Suggests some horse-trading and disagreement in the selection meeting, I reckon.

Still only room for two Jocks though & I can't help but think Seymour maybe looks like a spot of tokenism. Russell at least can consider himself unfortunate. I think Laidlaw and Huw Jones would've been in the shake up but for injuries too.

 

[Jarquis]

The Grays had a pretty mediocre 6N and there's and embarrassment of riches at Lock at the moment.

Launchers should be there ahead of all besides Itoje, so the Gray brothers aren't even the stiffest (ooh err)

 

[Furball]

12 Welsh and 2 Scots, even allowing for Gatland being Gatland, is ****ing laughable.

 

[Jarquis]

Is that the usual makeup of squad?

Feels like one of the back three could have made way for another centre (or 10 and just list Farrell at 12). Especially with Daly able to cover a wing if absolutely necessary.

Assuming we start
10. ***ton
12. Farrell

An(other) injury to ***ton means either Biggar at 10 or potentially J.Davies at 12? I could probably live with Henshaw and Joseph together in midfield

 

[Howe_zat]

Payne has played a lot at 13 and Henshaw-Joseph is probably the best we have in terms of specialist centres. Last time they only took 2 10s and 4 centres so it's a big expansion in the backs.

12s: Farrell, Henshaw, Te'o
13s: Joseph, Davies, Daly, Payne

Seems like plenty.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Thoughts for the starting XV? My guess (who I think Gatland will pick, not necessarily mine):

1) M Vunipola
2) K Owens
3) T Furlong
4) A Wyn Jones
5) M Itoje
6) CJ Stander
7) S Warburton (c)
8) B Vunipola

9) C Murray
10) J ***ton
11) L Williams
12) O Farrell
13) J Davies
14) G North
15) S Hogg

Outside centre and the non-George North wing spot both wide open as of now, but push comes to shove and he'll vote Leekist. I'd also have Kruis (assuming fitness) ahead of Wyn Jones as he's the best line out jumper we have.

 

[Howe_zat]

I guess that's the plan for now but things will change over the first few tour matches. Not least because of injuries.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Ben Youngs opts out of tour.

His sister-in-law, Tom's missus, has terminal cancer, which ****ing sucks, frankly.

Care to replace?

 

[Howe_zat]

Laidlaw's going, which surprises me. Care would be the like replacement.

Guessing it's a character/experience thing

 

[BoyBrumby]

Yeah, probably some truth in that. If he's not going to make the test squad Care might be a difficult tourist.

Although, with Murray's neck and shoulders being what they are, Care might well have snagged a cap.

 

[Howe_zat]

We should probably be grateful it wasn't Mike Phillips

 

[ripper868]

Excuse my ignorance here, haven't seen much of recent NH rugby...is Warburton really the best 7 among the 4 nations? Yet alone to be captain as well?

 

[BoyBrumby]

He's not even the best open side in Wales.

The best is probably Steffon Armitage. Him being a Toulon player means he's unavailable for England but, as shown by the picking of Matt Stevens for the 2013 squad after he'd retired from England duties, playing for one's country isn't a prerequisite for the Lions.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

He's not even the best open side in Wales.

The best is probably Steffon Armitage. Him being a Toulon player means he's unavailable for England but, as shown by the picking of Matt Stevens for the 2013 squad after he'd retired from England duties, playing for one's country isn't a prerequisite for the Lions.

How is John Hardie regarded up there? Would he have made the Lions tour if not injured in the 6N? Hardie was always highly rated back here but played in a blue riband elite position (everyone wants to be an opensider) and there was a bloke called Richie something who was quite good. John Hardie was considered a much better player than a journeyman like Jared Payne, for example.

 

[BoyBrumby]

How is John Hardie regarded up there? Would he have made the Lions tour if not injured in the 6N? Hardie was always highly rated back here but played in a blue riband elite position (everyone wants to be an opensider) and there was a bloke called Richie something who was quite good. John Hardie was considered a much better player than a journeyman like Jared Payne, for example.

I think it depends who you ask. There was a little bit of flak from some former Scots noteables at the unseemly haste he was ushered into the Sweaties' world cup squad (Peter Wright was particularly sanctimonious "coming over here, taking our jobs, shagging our women, etc.") & he does seem a little injury prone, but he did look the business in the tournament.

If he'd managed a full 6N (I think he lasted about ten minutes v Ireland and 20 v Wales) he might be in the shake up, but given Gatters is a bit of a size queen I think his comparitively slight stature might count against him. Which is wrong-headed thinking at best, given McCaw wasn't exactly a giant. Ditto George Smith, Neil Back, David Pocock, etc, etc...

 

[Howe_zat]

England and Saracens number eight Billy Vunipola has withdrawn from the Lions tour to New Zealand with a shoulder injury.

The 24-year-old, who has 34 England caps, had been managing the injury but it now requires further treatment.

He has been replaced by Wasps back row James Haskell, who will join the squad after the Premiership final on 28 May.

this is by some distance the worst thing to have ever happened

 

[ripper868]

Do you say that with absolute surety?

But yeah, big blow losing a key source of go forward. I can't think of the name but didn't England have another massive damaging number 8 this year? Was a more simple surname as well - Brown or something?

Edit - Nathan Hughes was it. I note he's not in the squad though, So it'll be Moriarty to start then?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Huge miss. I suppose Faletau is the obvious replacement, but his ball carrying not in the same league as Billy's.

A braver call might be Itoje. More than capable even if he's inexperienced as an 8 and it'd mean Kruis could partner Wyn Jones in the engine room.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

CJ Stander could play 8 if you want power and ball carrying.

 

[Howe_zat]

Huge miss. I suppose Faletau is the obvious replacement, but his ball carrying not in the same league as Billy's.

A braver call might be Itoje. More than capable even if he's inexperienced as an 8 and it'd mean Kruis could partner Wyn Jones in the engine room.

Reckon the best set piece second row we have is just Kruis-Itoje. If you want Kruis you bite the bullet and drop AWJ (this is why it won't happen)

Haskell being called up means that Gatland is fine with Faletau and Stander as #8 options. Heaslip stiff.