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Jimmy Anderson v Matthew Hoggard; in perfect swing bowling conditions

Who is the better bowler in swinging conditions?


  • Total voters
    42

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Hoggard. Anderson had almost perfect new ball bowling conditions in South Africa during the winter (last test Jo'burg Steyn swung it miles yet Anderson got 0 for 100 odd) and for bunny Prince aside, he was decidedly average. Fantastic during current series but any county bowler would fancy their chances in nipping out the likes of Farhat and Butt.
 

Top_Cat

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AWTA. Would back Hoggard to make better use of swinging conditions, as good as Anderson's form is right now.
 

Uppercut

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Hoggard. Anderson had almost perfect new ball bowling conditions in South Africa during the winter (last test Jo'burg Steyn swung it miles yet Anderson got 0 for 100 odd) and for bunny Prince aside, he was decidedly average. Fantastic during current series but any county bowler would fancy their chances in nipping out the likes of Farhat and Butt.
It's not perfect swing bowling conditions if you're using a Kookabura, though.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Hoggard. Anderson had almost perfect new ball bowling conditions in South Africa during the winter (last test Jo'burg Steyn swung it miles yet Anderson got 0 for 100 odd) and for bunny Prince aside, he was decidedly average. Fantastic during current series but any county bowler would fancy their chances in nipping out the likes of Farhat and Butt.
Actually the swing the SA got in the 1st innings @ Jo'Burg was gone by the time ENG bowled, thats why Anderson got 0 for 100 odd. What killed the ENG batsmen in Jo'Burg was the extra bounce Steyn/Morkel was getting out of the pitch more so than the swing.

Every other perfect bowling conditions Anderson got during the SA tour (Centurion second innings, Capetown test, part of Durban 2nd innings), Anderson utilized it to perfection.
 

GuyFromLancs

State Vice-Captain
Hoggard was treated disgracefully by England at the end. They obviously couldn't wait to get rid of him. He was much better than that. But..

..Anderson is far better when on song. In the right conditions Anderson is one of the best I've ever seen. He can turn corners or knock your teeth out depending on how he is feeling. Absolutely deadly. However, he drops about 50% when a) the conditions don't suit and b) he is slightly off the pace for whatever reason.

In short, Anderson is prone to more alarming dips but is worlds ahead as a matchwinner IMHO.

Regards
 

Spark

Global Moderator
One of the weirder but unnoticed aspects of last year's Ashes was that Anderson after bowling two good spells (Lord's and Edgbaston, both 1st Innings) he basically vanished. Didn't take a single wicket in the last two tests and took a few ODI's to take his first wicket.
 

Jacknife

International Captain
Anderson by some distance even though I rated Hoggard highly,when it's swinging Anderson is almost unplayable,the way he can swing it both ways,at speed and the lateness of the swing makes him a more difficult bowler to face.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Anderson by some distance even though I rated Hoggard highly,when it's swinging Anderson is almost unplayable,the way he can swing it both ways,at speed and the lateness of the swing makes him a more difficult bowler to face.
Yeah his ability to swing it both ways is amazing. He reverse swings the old ball both ways, too (although his reverse swinging outswinger doesn't go all that far, he can still bowl it as he showed at the Oval). The way that he will bowl predominantly outswingers to both right- and left-handers shows the mastery that he's got over the art.

He is truly awful when he loses his mojo, though, which is pretty often
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Actually the swing the SA got in the 1st innings @ Jo'Burg was gone by the time ENG bowled, thats why Anderson got 0 for 100 odd. What killed the ENG batsmen in Jo'Burg was the extra bounce Steyn/Morkel was getting out of the pitch more so than the swing.

Every other perfect bowling conditions Anderson got during the SA tour (Centurion second innings, Capetown test, part of Durban 2nd innings), Anderson utilized it to perfection.
Wrong.

And England elected to bowl twice in the series, putting South Africa in on very green wickets and made poor use of the conditions. All and sundry on here was bemoaning Anderson and Broad for bowling too short.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
For me it is Hoggard. One thing about the ball swinging is that you need to hit the right length, make them play as often as possible and try not to bowl too many 4 balls to let the pressure off.

Anderson may hoop it round corners both ways but he doesnt quite have the base skills to fully capitalize. Also, I think he over uses the inswinger and no longer is it a shock weapon and he doesnt have the same in depth plan to batsmen.

Putting it in the right place makes all the difference. Sidebottom swung the ball all over and people called him unlucky as he missed the edge more than anyone. He wasnt unlucky he was just often a foot too short and that is the difference between the edge and a play and miss.
 
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Uppercut

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Steyn misses the edge just as much, if not more. But when he does it he quite often takes the off stump instead.
 
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Top_Cat

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For me it is Hoggard. One thing about the ball swinging is that you need to hit the right length, make them play as often as possible and try not to bowl too many 4 balls to let the pressure off.

Anderson may hoop it round corners both ways but he doesnt quite have the base skills to fully capitalize. Also, I think he over uses the inswinger and no longer is it a shock weapon and he doesnt have the same in depth plan to batsmen.

Putting it in the right place makes all the difference. Sidebottom swung the ball all over and people called him unlucky as he missed the edge more than anyone. He wasnt unlucky he was just often a foot too short and that is the difference between the edge and a play and miss.
Completely AWTA. Gillespie had the same problem too.
 

Top_Cat

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So does Bollinger, fwiw.
Mmm, generally but not so much in the last year or so. Bowled his best against Pakistan and WI by bringing them half-forward. Be interesting to see how he bowls against England because he's looking like wrecking the lefties in England's line-up right now and I reckon KP is in some serious trouble if he keeps pushing at the ball the way he has of late.
 

Uppercut

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It depends to what extent his pus-bowling this summer was down to a loss of form rather than something specific to English conditions. I've said before that he's tailor-made to make Strauss look hopeless but if he doesn't find his length again he'll just get cut to the boundary a lot.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Wrong.

And England elected to bowl twice in the series, putting South Africa in on very green wickets and made poor use of the conditions. All and sundry on here was bemoaning Anderson and Broad for bowling too short.
Firslty how am i wrong?. There is absolutely no way Anderson & the ENG bowlers got any swing & seam movement by the time SA started to bat. It was clearly decresed as the match progressed, i'm am not sure what you where saying. This is how J Agnew from BBC summarized that test performance:

BBC Sport - Cricket - Jonathan Agnew column

quote said:
It is difficult to see them having the confidence to play five bowlers against any team other than Bangladesh in the foreseeable future, and they urgently need to identify a spearhead for their seam attack, which is capable in helpful conditions but otherwise lacks penetration.
A clear attack on Anderson, given he struggled to be penetrative in Jo'Burg when the swing was gone, compared to what he did in Capetown.


And England elected to bowl twice in the series, putting South Africa in on very green wickets and made poor use of the conditions. All and sundry on here was bemoaning Anderson and Broad for bowling too short

There was no where Centurion was pace-bowler friendly. That was a slow sub-continent like tuner. The most effective bowlers in that test was Swann & Harris. What happend in Centurion IIRC was the pitch had a green look in the morning & Strauss was suckered into bowling first - but it didn't play like a greentop. This article proves such:

Strauss suckered by green-tinged monster | Cricket Features | South Africa v England 2009/10 | Cricinfo.com

Secondly in Capetown the other time ENG put SA in to bat. It was certainly played like a green-top & Anderson took a 5-wicket haul.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
For me it is Hoggard. One thing about the ball swinging is that you need to hit the right length, make them play as often as possible and try not to bowl too many 4 balls to let the pressure off.

Anderson may hoop it round corners both ways but he doesnt quite have the base skills to fully capitalize. Also, I think he over uses the inswinger and no longer is it a shock weapon and he doesnt have the same in depth plan to batsmen.

Putting it in the right place makes all the difference. Sidebottom swung the ball all over and people called him unlucky as he missed the edge more than anyone. He wasnt unlucky he was just often a foot too short and that is the difference between the edge and a play and miss.
Hmm i dont know sir. I haven't noticed this problem with Anderson especially when he has gotten seamer-friendly conditions.

If you compared all the test where Hoggard (Jo'Burg 2004, Christchurch 2002 etc etc) & Anderson (Nottingham 08 & 10 etc etc) got perfect bowler friendly conditions. They ulitized those conditions equally well.

The only real edge Hoggard has as i've mentioned before is that Hoggard @ the back end of his career mastered reverse swing which aided him in his Nagpur & Adelaide 08 spells. Anderson has yet to do so.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Hoggard only ever swung the ball one way, he bowled conventional outswingers to the right hander and mixed it up with the ball that went straight on. Quite adept at that though he was, Im not sure how it compares to Anderson who surprisingly enough has excellent control of the swinging ball, swings it both ways and does so at close to 90mph.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Yea Anderson swings @ 90 mph on good days, compared to Hoggard who was usually in 80-85 mph range.
 

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