• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Is AB de Villiers an ATG?

Victor Ian

International Coach
At least come close to winning one. South Africa haven't gotten close despite their immensely strong teams.

Tendulkar had already been exceptional in multiple world cups. And he led India to 2 world cup finals with notable contributions from him, including player of the tournament in 2003.
Also Top batsman in 1996 WC, where India ended up choking in semi final run chase. And he didn't even get a chance to feature in half a dozen T20 world cups like ABD. He had far fewer opportunities yet he did deliver. Kohli too has delivered (in T20 world cups), Viv delivered too!! Dhoni likewise.

ABD not quite. 2019 world cup is make or break for him.. The margins are thin between the top batsman and the very top batsman, icc tournaments are always a factor in determining who stands where.
When you start to nit pick over single games then it means there is nothing in your argument. Tendulkar 'choked' spectacularly in the WC final that Ponting bossed. Tendulkar 'choked' again in 2011 but Dhoni got him over the line. I don't mark him down for that as he had over 400 other games in his career. Once I start to use a handful of 'big' tournaments against Devilliers being ATG I should realise that means that he is probably already there.
 

centurymaker

International Captain
When you start to nit pick over single games then it means there is nothing in your argument. Tendulkar 'choked' spectacularly in the WC final that Ponting bossed. Tendulkar 'choked' again in 2011 but Dhoni got him over the line. I don't mark him down for that as he had over 400 other games in his career. Once I start to use a handful of 'big' tournaments against Devilliers being ATG I should realise that means that he is probably already there.
haha chasing 360 in that era was impossible and that too against Australia.

Even if he had scored a 100, India would've lost. full stop. Game was over in the first innings itself, only a fool would suggest otherwise. Yet he "choked". Learn the meaning of that word before throwing it around. Making yourself look utterly silly.
 

centurymaker

International Captain
Australia were a bit fortunate to have batted first as they could play their natural attacking game without any scoreboard pressure to bind them, and so they totally took the attack to India... Gilly and Hayden had a blistering start and set it all up and then Ponting and Martyn took it all the way to the end. India never recovered from starting that game very poorly. First over itself was indicative of what was to follow. India nervous and Australia dominant.
 

srbhkshk

International Captain
Australia were a bit fortunate to have batted first as they could play their natural attacking game without any scoreboard pressure to bind them, and so they totally took the attack to India... Gilly and Hayden had a blistering start and set it all up and then Ponting and Martyn took it all the way to the end. India never recovered from starting that game very poorly. First over itself was indicative of what was to follow. India nervous and Australia dominant.
India were not winning that game whatever be the batting order, Australia had an unimaginably stronger bowling attack , marginally superior batting, far superior fielding, the match was in South Africa and they were the stronger side mentally. It was a credible effort from India's POV to reach the final but the cup belonged to Australia throughout,
 

centurymaker

International Captain
When you start to nit pick over single games then it means there is nothing in your argument. Tendulkar 'choked' spectacularly in the WC final that Ponting bossed. Tendulkar 'choked' again in 2011 but Dhoni got him over the line. I don't mark him down for that as he had over 400 other games in his career. Once I start to use a handful of 'big' tournaments against Devilliers being ATG I should realise that means that he is probably already there.
Tendulkar didn't choke in 2011 final. He ''failed". There is a massive difference. Malinga got him out with a ball tailing away after being hit for a few glorious boundaries.

You are the one nitpicking, you are using a single innings, using the 2011 final to evaluate him when he has already performed in Quarter Finals and Semi Finals (of that WC and previous WCs).Without Tendulkar's runs in quarters and semis of 2011, India would've lost the WC.

And he did it at the age of 38, after having played and endured the rigours of international cricket for 22 years. TWENTY TWO! Find another batsman who has even come close to performing at that level at that age and after more than 2 decades. There is none and no one can ever manage to replicate it. So foolishly looking at things out of context makes you look siller.

ABD simply hasn't taken SA over the line in ANY semifinal or quarterfinal or a big game in ANY ICC tournament! NOT ONE! You are the one nit picking and highlighting a single innings. I am using a big sample! Find me a single innings where ABD took South Africa over the line in a knockout game or a virtual knockout game towards the end of group stage.. in ANY ICC tournament. He has had no match winning innings. He has been a part of more than a dozen such games and zero standout in my mind from his batting point of view. And all those games ended in defeats.

He has not been able to correct South Africa's record of failing in every big game, in fact he has been part of teams who have made this record considerably worse. A big player normally corrects and elevates his team to greater heights. Not ABD.

Tendulkar put India on the map. India was a crap or at best a mediocre team, he carried the team and put them on the map and then grew and grew from there and eventually India became a dominant side him being their tailsman.

South Africa have always been a dominant side, yet ABD has not done anything special in limited overs tournaments to take South Africa higher, in fact he has done the opposite. Being their tailsman, he has been part of so many crushing defeats when it mattered. He has not enhanced the legacy of South Africa in limited overs. Tainted it much much more in fact.

Tendulkar elevated India to great heights. Kohli is elevating India even higher and like never before. Thats the hallmark of ATG batsman. Pointing too took Australia higher and higher. ABD .....

Cricket is not just an individual sport, its also collective and ABD has not done anything special despite being a special player to dig SA out a hole, in fact they have dug the hole deeper and deeper. When I think SA and limited overs, I think of a loooong list of failures. Thus can't call ABD an ATG. No current and recent South African can be called an ATG in shorter formats.

If I were to dig their record up in big games in the past 15 years, it would be something like 15+ defeats and maybe one win. Even Bangladesh probably has better record than that.
 

akilana

International 12th Man
Tendulkar didn't choke in 2011 final. He ''failed". There is a massive difference. Malinga got him out with a ball tailing away after being hit for a few glorious boundaries.

You are the one nitpicking, you are using a single innings, using the 2011 final to evaluate him when he has already performed in Quarter Finals and Semi Finals (of that WC and previous WCs).Without Tendulkar's runs in quarters and semis of 2011, India would've lost the WC.

And he did it at the age of 38, after having played and endured the rigours of international cricket for 22 years. TWENTY TWO! Find another batsman who has even come close to performing at that level at that age and after more than 2 decades. There is none and no one can ever manage to replicate it. So foolishly looking at things out of context makes you look siller.

ABD simply hasn't taken SA over the line in ANY semifinal or quarterfinal or a big game in ANY ICC tournament! NOT ONE! You are the one nit picking and highlighting a single innings. I am using a big sample! Find me a single innings where ABD took South Africa over the line in a knockout game or a virtual knockout game towards the end of group stage.. in ANY ICC tournament. He has had no match winning innings. He has been a part of more than a dozen such games and zero standout in my mind from his batting point of view. And all those games ended in defeats.

He has not been able to correct South Africa's record of failing in every big game, in fact he has been part of teams who have made this record considerably worse. A big player normally corrects and elevates his team to greater heights. Not ABD.

Tendulkar put India on the map. India was a crap or at best a mediocre team, he carried the team and put them on the map and then grew and grew from there and eventually India became a dominant side him being their tailsman.

South Africa have always been a dominant side, yet ABD has not done anything special in limited overs tournaments to take South Africa higher, in fact he has done the opposite. Being their tailsman, he has been part of so many crushing defeats when it mattered. He has not enhanced the legacy of South Africa in limited overs. Tainted it much much more in fact.

Tendulkar elevated India to great heights. Kohli is elevating India even higher and like never before. Thats the hallmark of ATG batsman. Pointing too took Australia higher and higher. ABD .....

Cricket is not just an individual sport, its also collective and ABD has not done anything special despite being a special player to dig SA out a hole, in fact they have dug the hole deeper and deeper. When I think SA and limited overs, I think of a loooong list of failures. Thus can't call ABD an ATG. No current and recent South African can be called an ATG in shorter formats.

If I were to dig their record up in big games in the past 15 years, it would be something like 15+ defeats and maybe one win. Even Bangladesh probably has better record than that.
Is this guy for real
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
India was a crap team before Tendulkar joined in, the 83 WC win and 85 World Championship win and 87 WC semi run aside.
 

Gob

International Coach
Tendulkar didn't choke in 2011 final. He ''failed". There is a massive difference. Malinga got him out with a ball tailing away after being hit for a few glorious boundaries.

You are the one nitpicking, you are using a single innings, using the 2011 final to evaluate him when he has already performed in Quarter Finals and Semi Finals (of that WC and previous WCs).Without Tendulkar's runs in quarters and semis of 2011, India would've lost the WC.

And he did it at the age of 38, after having played and endured the rigours of international cricket for 22 years. TWENTY TWO! Find another batsman who has even come close to performing at that level at that age and after more than 2 decades. There is none and no one can ever manage to replicate it. So foolishly looking at things out of context makes you look siller.

ABD simply hasn't taken SA over the line in ANY semifinal or quarterfinal or a big game in ANY ICC tournament! NOT ONE! You are the one nit picking and highlighting a single innings. I am using a big sample! Find me a single innings where ABD took South Africa over the line in a knockout game or a virtual knockout game towards the end of group stage.. in ANY ICC tournament. He has had no match winning innings. He has been a part of more than a dozen such games and zero standout in my mind from his batting point of view. And all those games ended in defeats.

He has not been able to correct South Africa's record of failing in every big game, in fact he has been part of teams who have made this record considerably worse. A big player normally corrects and elevates his team to greater heights. Not ABD.

Tendulkar put India on the map. India was a crap or at best a mediocre team, he carried the team and put them on the map and then grew and grew from there and eventually India became a dominant side him being their tailsman.

South Africa have always been a dominant side, yet ABD has not done anything special in limited overs tournaments to take South Africa higher, in fact he has done the opposite. Being their tailsman, he has been part of so many crushing defeats when it mattered. He has not enhanced the legacy of South Africa in limited overs. Tainted it much much more in fact.

Tendulkar elevated India to great heights. Kohli is elevating India even higher and like never before. Thats the hallmark of ATG batsman. Pointing too took Australia higher and higher. ABD .....

Cricket is not just an individual sport, its also collective and ABD has not done anything special despite being a special player to dig SA out a hole, in fact they have dug the hole deeper and deeper. When I think SA and limited overs, I think of a loooong list of failures. Thus can't call ABD an ATG. No current and recent South African can be called an ATG in shorter formats.

If I were to dig their record up in big games in the past 15 years, it would be something like 15+ defeats and maybe one win. Even Bangladesh probably has better record than that.
I need help reacting to something.
 

Victor Ian

International Coach
Fmd. Chill out and breath the air. Tendulkar is an all time great without a wc final to hang it on (not by his doing). Same with abdv. You'll notice I used quotes around the term choke indicating I was very aware he didn't choke. Other things were afoot such as his team and his opposition. Same with abdv.
 

OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I'm generally much more forgiving towards batsmen than bowlers when it comes to not performing in big knockout games. As a batsman even if you're playing well all it takes is one ball to get you out. Not much you can do. A bowler essentially gets 60 shots to make a contribution. If as a bowler you run up and bowl trash for 10 overs it's a huge fail on your part.
 

Shri

Mr. Glass
Zak bowled like 3 consecutive maidens at the start of the 2011 WC final, clearly compensating for his initial 2003 WC final spell.
 

Daemon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
@cm

It's ok to say AB doesn't have any match winning ICC knockout games but to hold that against him so strongly when by your own admission cricket is a team game, is quite strange. Sure maybe you don't think he's top 5 but of course he's an ATG.

You then doubled down and said no SA player can be an ATG in LOs. Very strange.

What if Bradman played for Bangladesh and they still never won a test?
 

Dendarii

International Debutant
It's ok to say AB doesn't have any match winning ICC knockout games but to hold that against him so strongly when by your own admission cricket is a team game, is quite strange.
If knockout contributions are so important, would him not getting South Africa over the line in the one knockout match South Africa have won disqualify him for ATG status? If so, then it's his bowlers' fault because they dismissed Sri Lanka cheaply and he didn't need to bat.

1st Quarter-Final (D/N), ICC Cricket World Cup at Sydney, Mar 18 2015 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Was Hussey an ATG ODI player?

He scored like 15 runs all world cup in 2007 and averaged 19 in World Cups.

Sometimes players don't perform in world cups but are still ATG players. World Cups are only a very short run of matches and can coincide with slumps in form or other circumstances which preclude a player from performing at their best (in Hussey's case it was because he wasn't needed to bat in 6/15 WC innings due to his top/middle order scoring all the runs).

What players do in world cups is important if they outperform. It's usually a lot less important if they statistically underperform.

And neither Tendulkar or AB de Villiers underperformed at the world cup level. To say that either of them have is ludicrous. From the moment India sent us in to bad in 2003, Australia were going to win. A captain with Ponting's hunger and attitude was never going to accept anything less than victory in that match.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Here are the top 5 world cup run scorers:

SR Tendulkar (INDIA) 2278 @ 56.95 SR 88.98
RT Ponting (AUS) 1743 @ 45.86 SR 79.95
KC Sangakkara (SL) 1532 @ 56.74 SR 86.55
BC Lara (WI) 1225 @ 42.24 SR 86.26
AB de Villiers (SA) 1207 @ 63.52 SR 117.29
 

Zinzan

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Here are the top 5 world cup run scorers:

SR Tendulkar (INDIA) 2278 @ 56.95 SR 88.98
RT Ponting (AUS) 1743 @ 45.86 SR 79.95
KC Sangakkara (SL) 1532 @ 56.74 SR 86.55
BC Lara (WI) 1225 @ 42.24 SR 86.26
AB de Villiers (SA) 1207 @ 63.52 SR 117.29
:-O AB's record ....
 

Top