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India's Test Bowling Stocks

stephen

Hall of Fame Member
I think ICC rankings clearly discounts the batting average of Australian batsman :ph34r: Both Smith and Kohli have same ICC rating points despite huge difference in their batting average .
https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/player-rankings/test/batting
Have you watched Australia bat recently? The fact that there is no mortal* in the top 23 batsmen in the world who currently plays for Australia should tell you something.

*Smith is clearly not mortal**.
** He's number 1 in the world despite not playing a test for half the ratings period.
 

h_hurricane

International Debutant
I think average of home and away average is a good way to compare Ashwin, Jadeja and Lyon. This takes away the average protected by not playing away as often as home.

Ashwin - 27.01
Jadeja - 27.86
Lyon - 32.42 (after clubbing his neutral record to away)

Quite simply makes Lyon a considerable downgrade on other two.
 

stephen

Hall of Fame Member
I think average of home and away average is a good way to compare Ashwin, Jadeja and Lyon. This takes away the average protected by not playing away as often as home.

Ashwin - 27.01
Jadeja - 27.86
Lyon - 32.42 (after clubbing his neutral record to away)

Quite simply makes Lyon a considerable downgrade on other two.
Except that Lyon's home conditions are considerably more challenging for a spinner than the conditions Ashwin/ Jadeja face. Hell, Warne averaged nigh on 30 in Australia after the turn of the century.
 

the big bambino

International Captain
not really. the great aus attack was poor against them in 18. elgar, markram et al. all scored runs.
Their no. 3 averages under 20. Bavuma is ordinary. Markram and Elgar coming back to the field. Like Aus and Eng their batting is barely test standard.
 

stephen

Hall of Fame Member
And there's a very important batsman missing since that series. A bloke by the name of de Villiers. You may have heard of him.
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I don't think Ashwin is bad away from home. He did bowl crap in one important test in England but is otherwise better than India's front-line spinners of past. I wouldn't drop Ashwin for Jadeja overseas fwiw.
I think he's been pretty ordinary out here tbh. Even the last tour when India was putting up good numbers and the quicks were firing. Tough place to tour for finger spinners, mind you.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
I think he's been pretty ordinary out here tbh. Even the last tour when India was putting up good numbers and the quicks were firing. Tough place to tour for finger spinners, mind you.
For spinners in general. Kumble did great in 2003 (Waugh's final tour), when India drew the series down there and Kumble had by far the most wickets of any player on either side, and he still averaged about 30. Kumble was not a traditional wrist-spinner obviously, but still. And averaging 30 is fantastic for a (visiting) spinner in Australia.
 
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h_hurricane

International Debutant
Except that Lyon's home conditions are considerably more challenging for a spinner than the conditions Ashwin/ Jadeja face. Hell, Warne averaged nigh on 30 in Australia after the turn of the century.
Lyon's average in india is worse than his away average. It is almost as poor as his home average. And some of those pitches he played in india were rank turners. I would pick someone good enough to take advantage of helpful conditions rather than someone whose record doesn't improve in friendly conditions.
 

morgieb

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Thing with Lyon is that he's gotten a lot better in recent times, I think his overall career average does him a bit of a disservice in this regard. Before the India tour in 2017 he was largely bowling pretty poorly in friendly conditions for whatever reason, but when he's faced a turner now he's generally bowled very well. He's still not perfect - and certainly he hasn't kicked on from the dual India/Bangladesh tours as much as I've hoped - but right now he's generally pretty fair in unfavourable conditions and very good in favourable ones.

I think also quality of team helps in Ashwin/Jadeja's case - it's easier to bamboozle batsmen when you're regularly scoring 500+ than with little scoreboard pressure. I think India's pace attacks have been a bit more consistent than Australia's too.
 

Daemon

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Australia recently played Siddle ffs, of course India is better

Even more so if you consider Hardik
 

srbhkshk

International Debutant
Australia recently played Siddle ffs, of course India is better

Even more so if you consider Hardik
I think in terms of Depth India are comfortably better, we are far less hurt if our top pacer or spinner is injured. In terms of the best that can be put on the park - I still think Australia does have a better if not much better pace attack compared to India's, more than compensating for the spin disadvantage.
 

stephen

Hall of Fame Member
I'm still scratching my head over how Siddle even made the squad, let alone got a game. There's a dozen blokes more deserving of test caps than Siddle was in the last Ashes.

Cummins
Hazlewood
Pattinson
Starc
Bird

Should have been the battery. But we can't change the past.

Bird still going from strength to strength for Tassie as well.
 

CricAddict

International Regular
And there's a very important batsman missing since that series. A bloke by the name of de Villiers. You may have heard of him.
Hasn't he retired? We can argue that Australia misses Bradman or India misses Tendulkar in the same way.
 

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