india's mental state

[honestbharani]

It is a weak excuse anyways. The only player who was available whom we could have picked was Kuldeep and we have no idea if it would have meant we will have won even then, even accepting that he will be an improvement to how Nadeem bowled here. England were just much better, its that simple. Its not even like we played bad cricket.

 

[Shri]

even accepting that he will be an improvement to how Nadeem bowled here.

he can challenge both edges of the bat (turn it two ways) and will pose questions to batsmen who are not the best against spin

his selection should be a nobrainer when one of our main spinners is injured tbh

 

[karan_fromthestands]

I like how "picking the right team" is being presented as something entirely separate from the match performance/strategy here, rather than part and parcel of both.

"Selection blunders" indeed. Otherwise known as "being crap".

Yap, that's why India B defeated the Aussies at Gabba. No one is taking the credit away from the English side, Virat's captaincy and team selection has always been a topic of debate.

 

[karan_fromthestands]

It is a weak excuse anyways. The only player who was available whom we could have picked was Kuldeep and we have no idea if it would have meant we will have won even then, even accepting that he will be an improvement to how Nadeem bowled here. England were just much better, its that simple. Its not even like we played bad cricket.

Sure, England was great. There is no denying that, but the discussion regarding the team selection had started even before the first bowl of the match was bowled. It's no excuse, it's just a reality. How many people would have picked Nadeem and Sundar in the playing XI for the first game at Chepauk?

Again, England defeating India in India is huge, because even our third string spinners are going to do well on turning tracks and at home we should be winning even if 2-3 key players are missing(which was not the case, coz we had all our resources except Jadeja, yet we lost).

The selection debate is a totally different one. And it's just my opinion(and it can be wrong) that if we pick 3 of our best spinners without looking at how they contribute with the bat we'll do much better.

 

[honestbharani]

Sure, England was great. There is no denying that, but the discussion regarding the team selection had started even before the first bowl of the match was bowled. It's no excuse, it's just a reality. How many people would have picked Nadeem and Sundar in the playing XI for the first game at Chepauk?

Again, England defeating India in India is huge, because even our third string spinners are going to do well on turning tracks and at home we should be winning even if 2-3 key players are missing(which was not the case, coz we had all our resources except Jadeja, yet we lost).

The selection debate is a totally different one. And it's just my opinion(and it can be wrong) that if we pick 3 of our best spinners without looking at how they contribute with the bat we'll do much better.

All of this is true, but it is kinda demeaning the achievement of England here when you say we can win if we select the right side. It is not a given the right side will play better than what this English side did. That is the point I think we are making.

Also, I will add we are missing Shami too and at home, he is as big a loss as Jaddu, really.

 

[Pup Clarke]

I don't know how viable this is (or likely), but is there a pressing need for a 5th bowler if Pandya/Jadeja are injured and resources limited? Maybe simplify it and just play your 4 best bowlers and back them to do the job? Saha to come in with the gloves and bat at 7 and take the place of an all-rounder

Very old-school thinking and mentality, but thought I'd throw it out there

EDIT : again not sure this would work as it's reliant on the quicks bowling alot of overs and having overs in there legs previously. But Siraj looks like he can bowl long spells and has a good tank, Ishant and Shami are renowned as workhorses and can put the hard yards in.

 

[trundler]

I don't know how viable this is (or likely), but is there a pressing need for a 5th bowler if Pandya/Jadeja are injured and resources limited? Maybe simplify it and just play your 4 best bowlers and back them to do the job? Saha to come in with the gloves and bat at 7 and take the place of an all-rounder

Very old-school thinking and mentality, but thought I'd throw it out there

They've just had to bowl 2 days. Without a 5th bowler it would've been carnage.

 

[Arachnodouche]

They've just had to bowl 2 days. Without a 5th bowler it would've been carnage.

Maybe actually pick a fourth bowler that's good? Two good spinners is all we need but Saha's not adding much as batsman (and hope I don't jinx him, Pant did show some signs of improvement behind the stumps in the second innings). But with Sundar in the mix, it's going to be hard to fit an extra batsman in.

 

[Pup Clarke]

They've just had to bowl 2 days. Without a 5th bowler it would've been carnage.

Absolutely, it's a very high-risk strategy. Can be extremely counter-productive if the opposition make big runs

Moving forwards in the series, it could be an option to play Siraj, Kuldeep and Ishant (if Bumrah's rested) as your 9-11 irrespective of their batting ability. Siraj bowled fantastically in Aus and Kuldeep has shown he is a wickettaker (albeit very small sample size). Could be something to gamble on for one test

 

[honestbharani]

Its no secret that I wanted us to play Kuldeep for sure this test. But at the start of the test, we did not know Nadeem will bowl this bad. He bowled well in his debut test and has been one of the best, if not the best, SLA bowler in the country in FC. What seemed like a small mistake has now been enlarged to have been this gigantic misstep with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[karan_fromthestands]

All of this is true, but it is kinda demeaning the achievement of England here when you say we can win if we select the right side. It is not a given the right side will play better than what this English side did. That is the point I think we are making.

Also, I will add we are missing Shami too and at home, he is as big a loss as Jaddu, really.

I agree with what you are saying to a certain degree, the timing of my comment might seem off. But I had posted the same thing right at the start of the match and it's my honest opinion, I didn't come up with something after India lost the game. I am not discrediting England's victory(hence I didn't post this in the main thread of the match).

 

[Shri]

Its no secret that I wanted us to play Kuldeep for sure this test. But at the start of the test, we did not know Nadeem will bowl this bad. He bowled well in his debut test and has been one of the best, if not the best, SLA bowler in the country in FC. What seemed like a small mistake has now been enlarged to have been this gigantic misstep with the benefit of hindsight.

if nadeem is the best sla we have got, i really fear jaddu's retirement when it happens

 

[Daemon]

Its no secret that I wanted us to play Kuldeep for sure this test. But at the start of the test, we did not know Nadeem will bowl this bad. He bowled well in his debut test and has been one of the best, if not the best, SLA bowler in the country in FC. What seemed like a small mistake has now been enlarged to have been this gigantic misstep with the benefit of hindsight.

This.

I know a lot of people were upset Kuldeep didn't get a go, but it was a lot less to do with them thinking Nadeem was **** than with them thinking Kuldeep is good and deserved to be picked.

Nadeem performed far worse than anyone imagined he would. And it's really not reflective of his ability imo.

 

[Arachnodouche]

With all this talk, Kuldeep's gonna be under immense pressure if and when he gets his chance. Not fair to any parties involved.

 

[ankitj]

This.

I know a lot of people were upset Kuldeep didn't get a go, but it was a lot less to do with them thinking Nadeem was **** than with them thinking Kuldeep is good and deserved to be picked.

Nadeem performed far worse than anyone imagined he would. And it's really not reflective of his ability imo.

Yeah, no one knew much about Nadeem to have a view really.

 

[Shri]

he's so slow through the air

 

[Kirkut]

All of this is true, but it is kinda demeaning the achievement of England here when you say we can win if we select the right side. It is not a given the right side will play better than what this English side did. That is the point I think we are making.

Also, I will add we are missing Shami too and at home, he is as big a loss as Jaddu, really.

This test match was similar to the first test Sri Lanka played here in India when they toured in 2009 I guess. Lankans won the toss, batted first and Jayawardene/Dilshan smashed big scores posting 700+ score without us taking 10 wickets. And we somehow managed to draw the test chasing in 4th innings because of our batting, Sachin and Laxman handled Murali with ease on day 5 when the ball was turning square.

This time though we did not have solid batting to save the test while chasing, if bowlers win test matches then batsmen draw test matches.

 

[Chrish]

Kuldeep probably has pissed in selector’s lawn. I have lost count the no. of times his name is mentioned as a potential selection by fans only to be neglected again and again. So, at this point it’s unlikely that he will be selected.

 

[_00_deathscar]

This test match was similar to the first test Sri Lanka played here in India when they toured in 2009 I guess. Lankans won the toss, batted first and Jayawardene/Dilshan smashed big scores posting 700+ score without us taking 10 wickets. And we somehow managed to draw the test chasing in 4th innings because of our batting, Sachin and Laxman handled Murali with ease on day 5 when the ball was turning square.

This time though we did not have solid batting to save the test while chasing, if bowlers win test matches then batsmen draw test matches.

SL didn't have Jimmy Anderson reverse swinging it.

Leach bowled some really good balls (Bess was utter trash) but even with Rohit gone, I was fairly confident. Pujara gone was a real dent, but still. Then Anderson came in and wrecked literally everything.

 

[Niall]

With all this talk, Kuldeep's gonna be under immense pressure if and when he gets his chance. Not fair to any parties involved.

It's harsh but if he has the backbone you need to play for an elite nation like India then he should be chomping at the bit to prove himself.