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ICL & BCCI set to talk

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Duh, players like Joshi etc were selected to make up for the "experienced local stars" quota. How many Indian players of above 30 are playing in the IPL? I'd reckon not more than 10, discounting superstars like the Fab 4, who are essential for their marketing value. But what about the ICL? A bunch of 30-yr olds who failed to make it to the echeleons of International cricket plus a bunch of old retired internationals who'd fail to make a stadium fill in their own regions.
So why was Joshi selected ? Why was Lehman selected ?

As for How many Indian Players over 30 are playing in IPL -

VVS,
Ganguly,
Tendulkar
Kumble,
Dravid
Sunil Joshi
Bangar
B Akhil
J Arunkumar
Wasim Jaffer
Akash Chopra
Ajit Agarkar
Murali Karthik
Pankaj dharmani

Now Go and check out ICL, despite all the bannings, It will be very comparable.

As for filling the stadiums - Yeah like Sunil Joshi is filling the stadiums in Banglore and Dharmani in Punjab.
 

Precambrian

Banned
Bollocs ? So SriLanka are going to forfeit the test series (or wont send their best players) because of IPL is bollocks and is akin to improving the game ? Wow really it will be worth **** to listen to your vision for 'Global Cricket'
What is your proof that IPL willingly tarnished that affair? The contracts with SL players were very much entered before that series was even inked. Anyway the SL-Eng test series was very much like an unwanted affair for the player, due to the fact that SL had toured Eng only in 09, and players didnt want to miss IPL for a series which was a part of Ranatunga's anti-BCCI plan. So dont blame IPL for SL's players complainting.

Best Saleable stars in the world - Yeah Sanjay Bangar, Darren Lehman, Luke Ronchi etc are the most saleble ones..Besides it is really worth even if it comes at the expense of Test series like SL-Eng, isn't it ?
It's a sad state of affairs when you blatantly get ideas and sentences mixed up. Read my post once again. If it doesnt make sense, read again,

Lastly on the Transparent manner - Sell those stars like whores, and leave the rest as old dreid tomatoes, vrey transparent indeed. Puhlease...
I can't believe your anti-IPL stance has been degraded into such a pitiable state, where you are talking very much like a communist lamenting about free-markets entering into the cricketing sphere. Welcome to 2008 mate, Soviet Union and Marxist Communist ideologies are long dead mate, unless you are a Bong or a Mallu. Cricket cannot survive on old ideas and romance alone anymore. For it to become a true international modern sport, it needs to adapt to the times, and embracing corporatisation of the 20-20 version is inevitable. And when that is done in a professional and transparent manner, it simply becomes a tremendous financial and marketing success that the IPL has become. When it done at the whims and fancies of some farts sitting around a roundtable, with absolutely no vision, but demented ideas of taking revenge for not granting telecast rights, it becomes the retarted affair that the ICL has become. Tell me, how many matches this year could boast of a 25% occupancy?

And it is the sheer uniqueness of Cricket that it can adhere to old traditional values and skills on one hand (Test Matches) and yet adapt and become entertaining (ODIs) and money-making and corporatised (20-20s) on the other hand. What Mr/ Subash Chandra is doing doesnt fall into any of these category,
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
20-20 cricket exists purely for entertainment and monetary purposes. Any claims to "improving quality of the game" is pure crap. And in that regard the ICL is a failure. Not to mention the sheer lack of transparency in the selection of teams, finance and other matters.
Yeah like BCCI selection is very transparent. Please do tell me If (not when) any IPL player has recieved his payment yet, last I heard none of the players have been paid a single penny. So much for transparency and professionalism in finance.As for team selection transparency - I remember how Kolkta KRs and Punjab Kings handled their teams with professionalism, it was really worth watching.

Check any player who has signed with ICL and you will know that ICL's handling of their contract is probably the most professional thing they have done in their cricketing life. Just because their contract is not visible to you doesn't mean it is not transparent.
 

Precambrian

Banned
So why was Joshi selected ? Why was Lehman selected ?

As for How many Indian Players over 30 are playing in IPL -

VVS,
Ganguly,
Tendulkar
Kumble,
Dravid
Sunil Joshi
Bangar
B Akhil
J Arunkumar
Wasim Jaffer
Akash Chopra
Ajit Agarkar
Murali Karthik
Pankaj dharmani

Now Go and check out ICL, despite all the bannings, It will be very comparable.

As for filling the stadiums - Yeah like Sunil Joshi is filling the stadiums in Banglore and Dharmani in Punjab.
14 players only? Out of the total of 140 odd Indian players (a rough guess, actuals could be more)? And understand that the top 5 you said are superstars and not in the team just for performances. And the others except for 4 or 5, are proven internationals. But what about ICL? How many players are there who would walk into a test match side (exp for Bangaldesh) in that entire lot? None? That shows ICL's sheer inferiority as a product. It cannot attract the masses or the classes.
 

Precambrian

Banned
Yeah like BCCI selection is very transparent. Please do tell me If (not when) any IPL player has recieved his payment yet, last I heard none of the players have been paid a single penny. So much for transparency and professionalism in finance.As for team selection transparency - I remember how Kolkta KRs and Punjab Kings handled their teams with professionalism, it was really worth watching. .
Just about scraping the proverbial barrel's bottom. Ok, just for argument's sake, you have any proof for what you just drolled out?

Check any player who has signed with ICL and you will know that ICL's handling of their contract is probably the most professional thing they have done in their cricketing life. Just because their contract is not visible to you doesn't mean it is not transparent
Oh, could you please tell me how much jimmy Maher gets for his ICL stint? Or Kalia for his? Wait, how much is McMillan earning? What is the basis for the remuneration? I guess not even his teammates know how much McMillan is earning. So how is it ensured that performance gets rewarded?

In IPL's case, star value and performances get rewarded during transfers. What abt ICL guys?
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
I can't believe your anti-IPL stance has been degraded into such a pitiable state, where you are talking very much like a communist lamenting about free-markets entering into the cricketing sphere. Welcome to 2008 mate, Soviet Union and Marxist Communist ideologies are long dead mate, unless you are a Bong or a Mallu. Cricket cannot survive on old ideas and romance alone anymore. For it to become a true international modern sport, it needs to adapt to the times, and embracing corporatisation of the 20-20 version is inevitable. And when that is done in a professional and transparent manner, it simply becomes a tremendous financial and marketing success that the IPL has become. When it done at the whims and fancies of some farts sitting around a roundtable, with absolutely no vision, but demented ideas of taking revenge for not granting telecast rights, it becomes the retarted affair that the ICL has become. Tell me, how many matches this year could boast of a 25% occupancy?
Before questioning my stance on IPL and accusing me of anti-IPL, you should check your one-eyed view of ICL. I dont think there is much difference in either league except that ICL intends to run a league slightly independent of BCCI. As for your lectures of Communism and captalism..I probably know more than you are willing to give me credit for (Hint :- China, India,Socialism).

I couldn't care less if ICL has all seats empty, not that it matters.Because on that basis There should be no test cricket in Pakistan, Please tell me how many Test matches in Pakistan have 25% occupancy

As for me being a BONG or a Mallu - You show your narrow mindedness and a showcase of somewhat racist Indian hidden in you. Just for clarification - I am neither. But you have shown who you are.

And it is the sheer uniqueness of Cricket that it can adhere to old traditional values and skills on one hand (Test Matches) and yet adapt and become entertaining (ODIs) and money-making and corporatised (20-20s) on the other hand. What Mr/ Subash Chandra is doing doesnt fall into any of these category,
Right !! ICL 2007 was any different from other T20 cricket played elsewhere in the world.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
I really don't get the depth of anti-ICL feeling amongst certain posters. I'm fairly indifferent either way. As far as I can see the only real difference between it & the IPL is that the BCCI says one's kosher and the other isn't. It isn't inherently evil or anything; its players aren't exactly wintering with the Khmer Rouge.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
14 players only? Out of the total of 140 odd Indian players (a rough guess, actuals could be more)?
Really, why not tell us how many actual players were there ?


And understand that the top 5 you said are superstars and not in the team just for performances. And the others except for 4 or 5, are proven internationals. But what about ICL? How many players are there who would walk into a test match side (exp for Bangaldesh) in that entire lot? None? That shows ICL's sheer inferiority as a product. It cannot attract the masses or the classes.

What about ICL - Let the BCCI remove the banning and then you can see how many want to play in ICL and how many want to play in IPL. And please do tell us how many of IPL players will make into the Bangladesh test side ?
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Just about scraping the proverbial barrel's bottom. Ok, just for argument's sake, you have any proof for what you just drolled out?
First of all you should learn to accept that YOU ARE WRONG. You are wrong on Shabir Ahmad, It is funny to see you have completely ignored the original point and jumping from one place to another.

And yes, I do have proof, which may not be good enough for you., here it is anyways:-

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/countycricket2008/content/story/334681.html

Shane Bond :- "I had a full contract that I had been through with the lawyers and they were really happy with it. It covered off every eventuality I could think of.
"Then I was given the IPL offer, but it was a one-and-a-half page memorandum of understanding that was really vague."


Oh, could you please tell me how much jimmy Maher gets for his ICL stint? Or Kalia for his? Wait, how much is McMillan earning? What is the basis for the remuneration? I guess not even his teammates know how much McMillan is earning. So how is it ensured that performance gets rewarded?

In IPL's case, star value and performances get rewarded during transfers. What abt ICL guys?

Why should I care what Jimmy Maher gets for playing in ICL ? It is between him and his employer. As long his contract with ICL is transparent to him, I couldn't care less.

Besides, Can you tell me whas Swapnil Asnodkar and Rajat Bhatia got paid for playing in IPL ?
 

Precambrian

Banned
Before questioning my stance on IPL and accusing me of anti-IPL, you should check your one-eyed view of ICL. I dont think there is much difference in either league except that ICL intends to run a league slightly independent of BCCI. As for your lectures of Communism and captalism..I probably know more than you are willing to give me credit for (Hint :- China, India,Socialism).
For gossake, please understand that I don't really look forward to IPL or any of the 20-20s as much I do for Test matches.

I couldn't care less if ICL has all seats empty, not that it matters.Because on that basis There should be no test cricket in Pakistan, Please tell me how many Test matches in Pakistan have 25% occupancy
It matters really. A 25% occupancy in test matches is in itself good in the modern era, esp in the subcontinent. I can only pity you mixing up audience for 20-20s and test matches. 20-20s thive on audience as compared to test matches. It's no rocket science.

As for me being a BONG or a Mallu - You show your narrow mindedness and a showcase of somewhat racist Indian hidden in you. Just for clarification - I am neither. But you have shown who you are.
I am a mallu. So there goes your stupid "racist" argument out of the window.

Right !! ICL 2007 was any different from other T20 cricket played elsewhere in the world.
It was. It hardly had the attention as compared to other 20-20 tournaments, and cannot be mentioned in the same breath as IPL when it came to organisation and success.
 

Precambrian

Banned
First of all you should learn to accept that YOU ARE WRONG. You are wrong on Shabir Ahmad, It is funny to see you have completely ignored the original point and jumping from one place to another.
:laugh: That's what it merits.

And yes, I do have proof, which may not be good enough for you., here it is anyways:-

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/countycricket2008/content/story/334681.html

Shane Bond :- "I had a full contract that I had been through with the lawyers and they were really happy with it. It covered off every eventuality I could think of.
"Then I was given the IPL offer, but it was a one-and-a-half page memorandum of understanding that was really vague."
Inappropriate evidence to your argument. You were talking about how the IPL teams have not paid their salaries, and you put up some **** talking about Bond's argument for playing in the IPL. Funny despite this "vague contract", the cream of the International crop had absolutely no hesitation in joining the IPL, and no player association had any complaint.

Why should I care what Jimmy Maher gets for playing in ICL ? It is between him and his employer. As long his contract with ICL is transparent to him, I couldn't care less.

Besides, Can you tell me whas Swapnil Asnodkar and Rajat Bhatia got paid for playing in IPL ?
Disclosure of salary paid is a prudent step in corporate setup. Go through the annual reports of some big corporates like Maruti Udyog or Infosys. And though I cannot be arsed to check out how much Asnodkar gets paid, it is SURE his teammates know how much he is getting, facilitating comparison and transparency. Oh you are talking about "transparency" and mentioning you won't care "how much the other guy gets paid"?

Apply it to your own life. Would you like a situation where you are not entitled to know how much a colleague in the same level as yours get paid, or a situation where there is transparency and you know how much bonus your mate was paid, so that you can strengthen your case in the next pay-meet with your HR?
 
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Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
It matters really. A 25% occupancy in test matches is in itself good in the modern era, esp in the subcontinent. I can only pity you mixing up audience for 20-20s and test matches. 20-20s thive on audience as compared to test matches. It's no rocket science.
No it is not rocket science, but why should the '%age of Occupancy' matter ? And you should watch test match attendance in Pakistan, it is not even 5 %, Heck we have more spectators in my league in US than they have in Test matches in Pakistan. If it is good enough for you then I am amazed at your expectations in test matches. And do go to a test match and you will know how much more entertaining it can be with full house.

It was. It hardly had the attention as compared to other 20-20 tournaments, and cannot be mentioned in the same breath as IPL when it came to organisation and success.
So ? Just because it has poor attendance doesn't mean it is inferior. I dont even know what you are getting into now. you have been jumping from one argument to another, just like Sarah Palin.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Wrong analogy. Confusing subscription to political idealogies with racism is piss poor. As good as stating "Southern USA states vote republican" as racist.
So the terms 'Mallu' and 'Bong' are political ideologies.
 

Precambrian

Banned
No it is not rocket science, but why should the '%age of Occupancy' matter ? And you should watch test match attendance in Pakistan, it is not even 5 %, Heck we have more spectators in my league in US than they have in Test matches in Pakistan. If it is good enough for you then I am amazed at your expectations in test matches. And do go to a test match and you will know how much more entertaining it can be with full house.
Attendance and crowd participation is a measure of success for any 20-20 tournament. Otherwise it could be staged in a indoor stadium "Made for TV" format? Why make it LIVE then? "Programme" the tournament, "fix" the match outcome like the WWE matches, dontcha?

I don't understand the point you are trying to make by comparing Test match attendance in Pakistan with 20-20 leagues success. We all know that Pakistan has been plagued by a lot of troubles unfortunately which has resulted in a general fall in interest for sport itself. It happens when there are larger things to ensure in life, like during the WW when virtually no cricket was played at all.

Test cricket has it's audience in India, England and Australia. And WI too,


So ? Just because it has poor attendance doesn't mean it is inferior. I dont even know what you are getting into now. you have been jumping from one argument to another, just like Sarah Palin.
:laugh: without the blinks.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Inappropriate evidence to your argument. You were talking about how the IPL teams have not paid their salaries, and you put up some **** talking about Bond's argument for playing in the IPL. Funny despite this "vague contract", the cream of the International crop had absolutely no hesitation in joining the IPL, and no player association had any complaint.
I said it may not enough for you. Bond said he had an option of signing an ICL contract which was a full contract approved by his lawyer as opposed to a 1-1/2 page document without any specifics.

The creme crop are signing with IPL because it is approved by their board. Dont forget, Brain Lara, Mcgrath, Warne, Md. Yusuf, Fleming etc were all ready to sign the ICL contract but were only pressured by their boards to not do so.
 

Precambrian

Banned
I said it may not enough for you. Bond said he had an option of signing an ICL contract which was a full contract approved by his lawyer as opposed to a 1-1/2 page document without any specifics.

The creme crop are signing with IPL because it is approved by their board. Dont forget, Brain Lara, Mcgrath, Warne, Md. Yusuf, Fleming etc were all ready to sign the ICL contract but were only pressured by their boards to not do so.
8-) Lara, Fleming, McG, Warne had all retired, and you talk abt them being pressurised by their boards. :laugh:
 

Precambrian

Banned
So the terms 'Mallu' and 'Bong' are political ideologies.
I said "Mallus and Bongs are the ones subscribing to Communism and Marxism these days". What is bloody racist in that? It is a plain fact! It is your pathetic sense of perception and wilful intention to view facts in a distorted fashion that makes you to see it as racist.
 

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