Ian Botham vs Kapil Dev

[Pratters]

do they still publish that magazine in India?

www.tssonnet.com They have gone from a magazine to a newspaper format though in the past 1-2years which I don't particularly like. I don't buy it nowadays though as you can read most of it online on their site.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

No possibly about it. A case can be made that, statistically at least, from 1977-81 he was the second best cricketer of all time.

Sorry for saying it in this thread but it was Imran 1982-1992.

 

[Manee]

The reality is, though, that caught-down-leg is always rare, there's no way to cause that; and decent batsmen don't often get caught in the covers or indeed anywhere in the outfield, so no bowler will ever get that far if that's the main way he depends on to get wickets.

Ok, fair enough. He had had a couple of beers at the time - take from that what you will.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

A lot of cricketers go on past their best, Richards, Mark Waugh, Slater, Donald etc
I don't think you can take just one series but if they are at the top for a period as in the case of Botham 5 years then you can take that as the player we are debating. You could say the same about a certain Pakistani fast bowler

That Pakistani bowler never went past his best but in his last few tests, played as a specialist batsman + captain & bowled very little due to his age which was almost 40.Big difference in being ordinary by bowling sufficient & bowling just few overs.

 

[Perm]

No possibly about it. A case can be made that, statistically at least, from 1977-81 he was the second best cricketer of all time.

You'd be hard pressed.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

You'd be hard pressed.

This one is much better.

 

[archie mac]

That Pakistani bowler never went past his best but in his last few tests, played as a specialist batsman + captain & bowled very little due to his age which was almost 40.Big difference in being ordinary by bowling sufficient & bowling just few overs.

I was talking about Waqar Younis tbh mate

 

[Perm]

This one is much better.

Yes it is.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

I was talking about Waqar Younis tbh mate

Thats ok but you should've mentioned his name.

 

[archie mac]

Thats ok but you should've mentioned his name.

I like to make people work

 

[biased indian]

This one is much better.

but he was very poor to start with......

check this

 

[archie mac]

You have to take it in context. For example, I'd rather have somebody who averages 50 over ten years than somebody who averages 65 for five years, and then 35 for the next five. Consistency is the key in cricket, and if you can produce that kind of performance for your country then you will often win matches, despite not generally being regarded as 'match-winners'.

The player in question would be marked down because he couldn't display consistency throughout his career, but quite often people will remark upon the two different phases of his career.

If that is how it is done, then why is Botham so far in front in this poll?

 

[Ikki]

This one is much better.

But it's so misleading...

It says in 52 matches he averaged 50+ but in only 18 innings, out of 126, did he ever score 50s.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

If that is how it is done, then why is Botham so far in front in this poll?

I voted for Botham because I assumed he meant Waqar Younis.

 

[silentstriker]

But it's so misleading...

It says in 52 matches he averaged 50+ but in only 18 innings, out of 126, did he ever score 50s.

You mean 20 fifties in 52 matches right? So thats a 50 every 2.5 matches approximately. Nasser Hussain averaged a fifty every 2.04 games. Does this make Imran a bona fide front line batsman? Nope, but it makes him a very decent bat.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

But it's so misleading...

It says in 52 matches he averaged 50+ but in only 18 innings, out of 126, did he ever score 50s.

If he had 126 innings in 52 matches it's no wonder he made so many runs.

 

[neville cardus]

This one is much better.

Sheesh. You never stop, do you?

 

[Olwe]

i recon the best all rounder of all time has to be Garfield Sobers by far.

 

[neville cardus]

You mean 20 fifties in 52 matches right? So thats a 50 every 2.5 matches approximately. Nasser Hussain averaged a fifty every 2.04 games. Does this make Imran a bona fide front line batsman? Nope, but it makes him a very decent bat.

But it doesn't make him worthy of a fifty-plus average. In my lousy opinion, a fifty-plus average almost automatically pops you up there with the greats (or near-greats) of all-time -- and that Imran most certainly wasn't.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

But it's so misleading...

It says in 52 matches he averaged 50+ but in only 18 innings, out of 126, did he ever score 50s.

35s,40s & 45s are not less important.