The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
I'm surprised that Viv's standardised average for 76-81 is actually adjusted down.
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Hutton vs V. Richards
- Thread starter shortpitched713
- Start date
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah, he has a fair case to be considered the first great Test batsman.
trundler
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Shrewsbury?
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
Yep, he'd definitely be another prime contender, though debuted a little after Murdoch.
Red_Ink_Squid
Global Moderator
Then clearly you should update it.
Whatever you have going on in your life surely can't be more important than settling the great peak!McCabe vs peak!Smith debate.
BazBall21
International Captain
Better average in low-scoring tests than Trumper
Averages in England v Australia Tests 1877-1893. Qualification 800 runs. Hundreds in brackets.
Grace 36 (2)
Shrewsbury 35 (3)
Murdoch 32 (2)
Percy McDonnell 28 (3)
Ulyett 25 (1)
Alec Bannerman 23 (0)
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
This is a gun thread idea!
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Given we know where he works, this is literally true though.
shortpitched713
Cricketer Of The Year
And Lindwall too. His performance did dip somewhat against them though, as would be expected, and shown in the analysis filters below:
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Still, I don't think he faced that same quality on as consistent a basis earlier in his career, which is why I think it's hard to say he was doing as much of a job as a "proper modern" opener does in facing professional quicks day in and out with the new ball. Not enough for me to disqualify him from this conversation of course, but his isn't a one to one comparison with a modern opener.
shortpitched713
Cricketer Of The Year
Victor Trumper who???
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
All great batsmen's stats dip vs the best bowlers, so that's not unique to anyone.And Lindwall too. His performance did dip somewhat against them though, as would be expected, and shown in the analysis filters below:
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
stats.espncricinfo.com
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Still, I don't think he faced that same quality on as consistent a basis earlier in his career, which is why I think it's hard to say he was doing as much of a job as a "proper modern" opener does in facing professional quicks day in and out with the new ball. Not enough for me to disqualify him from this conversation of course, but his isn't a one to one comparison with a modern opener.
And we don't have to delve into the fist half of his career to verify what he could do, when he literally showed us in the 2nd half, with the injury to boot.
For me the best opener ever
shortpitched713
Cricketer Of The Year
Changed my vote to Hutton from Viv Richards. The argument for his consistency, I think is better. Plus the drop off when facing the quality Australian quicks later in his career isn't significant enough to hold against him, which was a part of my argument against him, before.
Patience and Accuracy+Gut
State Vice-Captain
The other bloke has better adjusted average,adjusted peak and all as a opener with a good chunk of his career taken by war plus injury in the war. But yeah Viv’s destroying the opposition by scoring quick fire 20s and 30s makes him lot ahead.
shortpitched713
Cricketer Of The Year
Mate, you've gone too far. Viv Richards wasn't some kind of slap dash, Bazballing slogger.
He has big scores. Dozens of test centuries. And yes, he could score quickly, but he didn't just average over 55 in over 90 Tests in his peak by just being the Carribean Zak Crawley.
Coronis
Hall of Fame Member
Sure he did.
shortpitched713
Cricketer Of The Year
Pap Finn Keighl
International Debutant
Very tough to decide.
Voted for Viv.
Voted for Viv.