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How much do coaches matter in the modern game?

subshakerz

International Captain
There seem to be two schools of thought on the influence of coaches. The old school, espoused by guys like Ian Chappell and Warne, believes the role of coach is overrated and the emphasis is on the captain when it comes to team results and team culture. Players at the top level can better hone their craft through mutual consultation rather than require a coach to fix things such as technique. The coach essentially is at best a disposable support staff to the captain.

The modern school, epitomized by high profile coaches like Shastri, McCullum and Langer, looks at the coach as the man more responsible for transforming team culture and creating a professional unit. The captain handles things on the field, while off the field, remains in consultation with the coach on team decisions, dealing with media, etc.

My own view is that the balance is somewhere in the middle. The captain to me is still the boss, and a captain that relies too much on the coach rather than his own gut in tackling the team is a weak one. I think the influence of the coach is overstated. However, I do believe that the reality of the modern game and with access to technology, it necessitates a bigger support staff and coach role, but the best coach is a low profile one.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
The head coach is the biggest supporting structure for a captain as far as cricket goes. When the relationship is not like this, you usually see things go south very fast.

But of course, in T20s and esp. Franchise T20s, it can and does work now and then when the captain is the biggest supporting structure for the coach, but even that, in the long run IMO, will not work out.
 

Aritro

International Debutant
They're important and even Shane Warne reversed his previous position on coaches in his autobiography, citing Bob Simpson's knowledge and advice as being very helpful in improving the team's slip catching, and some particular aspect of his bowling (which I can't remember).
 

Line and Length

International Captain
A cricket coach is useful when a player is going through a form slump. He/she is able to identify if that slump is a psychological issue or a technical flaw. If the latter, a good coach can identify and remedy that flaw. It's when coaches impinge on individual players' routines that problems arise. Having players writing homework is an example. Some would readily comply, others would ask, "What's the point?" A good coach makes it clear that the captain is the team leader and they are there to provide technical support and organise training sessions.
 

TheJediBrah

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Warnie just thought Buchanan was surplus to requirements right. Just probably didn't like his weird style
Warne was never really anti-coach. He just didn't like Buchanan. He analysed and quantified everything. Probably had a spreadsheet for how many hookers Warnie should be seeing per week on tour
 

subshakerz

International Captain
Warne was never really anti-coach. He just didn't like Buchanan. He analysed and quantified everything. Probably had a spreadsheet for how many hookers Warnie should be seeing per week on tour
Warne once opined that a coach is only needed to take you from the hotel to the ground.
 

Aritro

International Debutant
Yeah he was definitely anti-coach, albeit heavily influenced by his need to denigrate Buchanan specifically.
 

Aritro

International Debutant
A good coach makes it clear that the captain is the team leader and they are there to provide technical support and organise training sessions.
I would have thought so, but I was surprised at how much Langer seems to operate like a football coach in that Amazon doco about the Australian team. It looks like he's completely in charge off the field and occasionally allows Tim Paine to have his say. Might have been the way it was edited though.
 

davado

School Boy/Girl Captain
shane warne was an utter wanker. Great bowler obviously but such a wanker. So who cares what his opinion on coaches was?
Lets all thank jesus for taking him too soon.
So i dont have to hear his fingernails down the blackboard commentary ever again. Thankyou jesus for killing shane warne
 

TheJediBrah

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a good coach can identify and remedy that flaw. It's when coaches impinge on individual players' routines that problems arise. Having players writing homework is an example. Some would readily comply, others would ask, "What's the point?" A good coach makes it clear that the captain is the team leader and they are there to provide technical support and organise training sessions.
I would have thought so, but I was surprised at how much Langer seems to operate like a football coach in that Amazon doco about the Australian team. It looks like he's completely in charge off the field and occasionally allows Tim Paine to have his say. Might have been the way it was edited though.
There's your problem
 

subshakerz

International Captain
A cricket coach is useful when a player is going through a form slump. He/she is able to identify if that slump is a psychological issue or a technical flaw. If the latter, a good coach can identify and remedy that flaw. It's when coaches impinge on individual players' routines that problems arise. Having players writing homework is an example. Some would readily comply, others would ask, "What's the point?" A good coach makes it clear that the captain is the team leader and they are there to provide technical support and organise training sessions.
I pretty much agree with this. If coaches just stick to the basics of technique and keep their heads down, I think the captain should be balls enough to run the rest.

Though Ian Chappell made a good point that top level players can usually learn as much from talking to the senior teammates or other retired great as from a coach.

I thought it odd to see Shastri talk to the media sitting next to Kohli after every big series loss or win, as if he was some architect of the result. What sort of message does that give?
 

Line and Length

International Captain
shane warne was an utter wanker. Great bowler obviously but such a wanker. So who cares what his opinion on coaches was?
Lets all thank jesus for taking him too soon.
So i dont have to hear his fingernails down the blackboard commentary ever again. Thankyou jesus for killing shane warne
A sick and disgraceful comment. I was no fan of Warne as a commentator but this is beyond the pale.
 

davado

School Boy/Girl Captain
how can praising jesus be beyond the pale ?
in his infinite wisdom he wanted to stop that annoying commentating.
And verily did smite warney dead.
im looking forward to danny morrisons turn should jesus in his wisdom want to improve cricket commentary a little more
PRAISE JESUS
 

TheJediBrah

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Brah I'm starting to think you’re not just a dude trying to be funny and you might actually have something wrong with you
 

davado

School Boy/Girl Captain
maybe. Whose to say. I cant stand shane warne so maybe theres something wrong with me.
maybe i can find medication to cure such an affliction
 

cnerd123

likes this
shane warne was an utter wanker. Great bowler obviously but such a wanker. So who cares what his opinion on coaches was?
Lets all thank jesus for taking him too soon.
So i dont have to hear his fingernails down the blackboard commentary ever again. Thankyou jesus for killing shane warne
what a god awful post
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
shane warne was an utter wanker. Great bowler obviously but such a wanker. So who cares what his opinion on coaches was?
Lets all thank jesus for taking him too soon.
So i dont have to hear his fingernails down the blackboard commentary ever again. Thankyou jesus for killing shane warne
Get this ****ing idiot out of here already.....wtf.
 

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