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How much credit will England get?...........

Lillian Thomson

International Coach
.......................IF England win the current series, how much credit will they get in our own media and around the world? Sadly, after the initial excitement the answer will be, not very much. :blink: When the dust has settled and the final analysis complete all the experts will point to the Glen McGrath injuries and also come to the conclusion that Australia are in decline. Whenever we are the best in any sport we always look at the opposition weaknesses to find the reasons. :dry:
 

greg

State Captain
It doesn't really matter if we get credit or not. With the Ashes all that matters is who wins.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
People discounted India's performance in Australia because their key bowlers were absent. The same can happen to England if they do not show a strong performance in the subcontinent.

The road is long to be the best test team in the world. The exciting thing is England has a real chance of overhauling Australia if they keep performing the way they have been in the recent past.

It will be very tough to though.

Should any one discount England's performance in the Ashes (regardless of the result)?

Certainly not.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
They deserve all the credit. Australia are the world Champs for almost a decade now and any team that beats them deserves the praise.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Pratyush said:
People discounted India's performance in Australia because their key bowlers were absent.
Key phrase there being bowlers...

Here it's a bowler missing.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
England will be praised lavishly, many will call them the best in the world, and those who bring up McGrath's freakish injury, Gillespie's poor form etc will be accused of making excuses.

I'd say England will definately deserve praise, whether they win the Ashes or not. Australia haven't been beaten anywhere outside of the subcontinent by any team in 12 years, and it's not the first time they've been without a star player at an important time. I don't think winning this Ashes series will necessarily make England the best team in the world, that will depend on how the teams go after the series, or if they both keep winning for the next couple of years then the outcome of the next Ashes series on Australian soil. It will certainly mean they are very close however, and I daresay they will be treated accordingly by the media and fans.
 

Paid The Umpire

All Time Legend
The big thing is that they have thrown everything at Australia and after three tests they got 1-1. Australia have played badly, but only for so long.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Paid The Umpire said:
The big thing is that they have thrown everything at Australia and after three tests they got 1-1. Australia have played badly, but only for so long.
This excuse has been wheeled out every single week all summer, and it's really getting very tired indeed. Where's this improvement going to come from?

Haven't you considered for one moment that what you are currently seeing from the current Aussies is all you are going to see from them against England this summer, that they are basically being matched on an equal footing?

No, I daresay you haven't.

Poor sod.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
luckyeddie said:
This excuse has been wheeled out every single week all summer, and it's really getting very tired indeed. Where's this improvement going to come from?

Haven't you considered for one moment that what you are currently seeing from the current Aussies is all you are going to see from them against England this summer, that they are basically being matched on an equal footing?

No, I daresay you haven't.

Poor sod.
It's a fairly straightforward observation that Australia aren't playing to their full ability. Injuries, the shocking form of Gillespie, the most dropped catches seen from an Australian team in a decade or more and the poor form of guys like Hayden and Gilchrist are all significant things. England have, basically, played extremely well while Australia largely haven't. Do you really think someone like Damien Martyn isn't good enough to score against this English attack? Or that McGrath usually bowls like he did at Old Trafford? Or that Australia are such a poor fielding side that they regularly put down 5 or more chances each test?

If England do manage to keep those guys down for the whole of the series, well played to them, but pointing out that they haven't done much yet and if they did it would change things hardly constitutes being blind to the fact that England have played well.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
FaaipDeOiad said:
It's a fairly straightforward observation that Australia aren't playing to their full ability. Injuries, the shocking form of Gillespie, the most dropped catches seen from an Australian team in a decade or more and the poor form of guys like Hayden and Gilchrist are all significant things. England have, basically, played extremely well while Australia largely haven't. Do you really think someone like Damien Martyn isn't good enough to score against this English attack? Or that McGrath usually bowls like he did at Old Trafford? Or that Australia are such a poor fielding side that they regularly put down 5 or more chances each test?

If England do manage to keep those guys down for the whole of the series, well played to them, but pointing out that they haven't done much yet and if they did it would change things hardly constitutes being blind to the fact that England have played well.
Even if Australia ARE capable of playing better, why is the assumption constantly being made that sooner or later they will? And why is that always used in conjunction with nonsense like "England have thrown everything at Australia and it's still only 1-1"?

We've seen NOTHING really from Harmison or Hoggard all series as yet, so the point can equally be made in the other direction.

As far as catching is concerned, well, perhaps your guys are just too tense and are suffering from PBS too (Pietersen-Butterfinger Syndrome).
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
marc71178 said:
Key phrase there being bowlers...

Here it's a bowler missing.
McGrath and Warne were missing then. McGrath and an out of form Gillespie is being missed by Aussies right now.

Aussies are missing quality bowlers and not just 'a' quality bowler right now.
 

Craig

World Traveller
Gillespie not in the team is due to his own fault.

One answer is to bowl better and actually look like getting a wicket (and stop looking like an idiot and get rid of the head band in ODIs and the mullett. I know this won't make him a better bowler but none the less I still feel he looks silly with it).
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Pratyush said:
McGrath and Warne were missing then. McGrath and an out of form Gillespie is being missed by Aussies right now.

Aussies are missing quality bowlers and not just 'a' quality bowler right now.
You can add Gillespie to the missing actually, since he was injured most of the series and was forced in half fit for one game.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
marc71178 said:
You can add Gillespie to the missing actually, since he was injured most of the series and was forced in half fit for one game.
And Warnie's absence doesn't really matter against Indian batting, so It didn't really matter. Brad Williams was bowling much better than the Gillespie, Kaspa have bowled in this series.

That doesn't mean England dont get the credit, they do and they deserve every bit of it. That said the ashes aint over yet.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
luckyeddie said:
Even if Australia ARE capable of playing better, why is the assumption constantly being made that sooner or later they will? And why is that always used in conjunction with nonsense like "England have thrown everything at Australia and it's still only 1-1"?
Because Australia have been a champion team for over a decade and we have seen them come back from behind. So there is nothing wrong with the assumption/hope that they will come from behind. I know it's not a good feeling if you are an England supporter. ;)

We've seen NOTHING really from Harmison or Hoggard all series as yet, so the point can equally be made in the other direction.
Did you really watch the Lords's test ?? How many wickets did Harmison take there ? Oh and before you forget it was Harmison who took the vital wicket of Kaspa when Aus needed 2 runs to win the test. ;)
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
marc71178 said:
You can add Gillespie to the missing actually, since he was injured most of the series and was forced in half fit for one game.
Still bowlers have been missing in Ashes as well, contrary to what you suggested.

Also, are you saying India's performance in Australia should be discredited 8-)
 

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