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Great Good Average

Victor Ian

International Coach
Great sucks. It is just so variable. Anderson is a great player. Ponting was a great player. Bradman was a great player.

How do others distinguish between players? Obviously, there is all-time-great, but even that is variable. Just how many All time Greats can there be. I'd imagine there are near 100 of these guys running around now. Is there another word for great that should be used when describing Bradman, Marshal, Hadlee Viv, etc, and a lesser form of great that can be used for Anderson, Mitch, Bell, Cook, etc. With limited vocabulary I'd call these guys good, but that seems like almost an insult rather than a plaudit.

I think a grading of words is needed where the following applies.

Level 1 word - There are only 40 to 50 of these guys. Over time certain players stop being regarded as level 1 to make room for others rather than everyone joining the club as we seem to have done with the 2000's batsmen.
Level 2 word - This is what we really mean by guys like all those batsmen of the 2000s and a plethora of bowlers who you would never have in your all time 11 but were f'in awesome nevertheless.
Level 3 word - this is for Anderson and co. Guys who were very very very f'in good - Good enough to play until they retired or reached osteoporosis rather than being told to move on for someone else.
Level 4 word - these players are better than those who just made it. Lyon is one of these. These guys hand around for a full career too, but other factors helped them get there.

Ideas?
 

bagapath

International Captain
I did make this thread once. but it is good fun to have this discussion every few years.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Like most other things, its extremely subjective and your definition of the word may be quite different to another person's. What you can say for sure though, is that most cricket fans will just know the level they wanna place a player at without having to resort to a standardized taxonomy. :)
 

Victor Ian

International Coach
Level Bradman. This is a perfect starting point. All series need a unique starting point.

So rather than Bradman being twice the player that Kohli is, the truth is Kohli is only half the player that Bradman was - This makes sense, as you can not be two people. (except, perhaps for the conjoined)
 

Victor Ian

International Coach
Like most other things, its extremely subjective and your definition of the word may be quite different to another person's. What you can say for sure though, is that most cricket fans will just know the level they wanna place a player at without having to resort to a standardized taxonomy. :)
This is not true - there is a 5 thread wide, 20 page long **** fight going on at the moment for the 'great' Anderson.

Back to the task at hand. Can an All Time Great bracket be increasing? and if so, increasing exponentially. I got peeved at this once before, somewhere else, but I felt that there can only be maybe 3 or 4 players per decade classed as all time great. Now, it seems we are throwing all kinds of crap into the basket. I don't want to name names, but just think of how many batsmen, since 2000 have been labelled All time great. This bracket, in order to maintain it's quality can not keep growing and growing lest we let players like Pieterson sit alongside Hobbs. I know right - some people have tried to do that.
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
This is not true - there is a 5 thread wide, 20 page long **** fight going on at the moment for the 'great' Anderson.

Back to the task at hand. Can an All Time Great bracket be increasing? and if so, increasing exponentially. I got peeved at this once before, somewhere else, but I felt that there can only be maybe 3 or 4 players per decade classed as all time great. Now, it seems we are throwing all kinds of crap into the basket. I don't want to name names, but just think of how many batsmen, since 2000 have been labelled All time great. This bracket, in order to maintain it's quality can not keep growing and growing lest we let players like Pieterson sit alongside Hobbs. I know right - some people have tried to do that.
The more players that come into consideration for ATG, reduces the overall number of ATGs. The number of ATGs should stay the same, if someone else wants to join, you gotta kick someone out.
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I propose a Chappell-Al Hasan level for players who pick and choose the series they decide to play.
 

Victor Ian

International Coach
The more players that come into consideration for ATG, reduces the overall number of ATGs. The number of ATGs should stay the same, if someone else wants to join, you gotta kick someone out.
Yeah! I'm all for a static bracket size too.

I think this could create immense fun each year too. Imagine CW convening a thread where a player is proposed for all time great. We all argue as to the merits of the player and whether they are justified to take an incumbents spot. Is Kholi still an all time Great? Just who is he removing!

Steyn is up for consideration. Does he actually make it? Who does he remove? (Has he actually retired yet?)
 

watson

Banned
The word 'Great' sometimes encompasses too much as it steps outside the bounds of cricketing ability and then focuses on things like character, influence, legacy and charisma.

Sometimes it is more simple to use the words like better or best when comparing players. So, Tom Richardson may have been a great fast bowler, but there is little doubt that Fred Trueman was the better of the two.
 

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