Gilchrist was basically an ATG bat plus being a fantastic keeper until 2005. After 2005 his batting output was the equivalent of a mediocre batsman but his keeping was still top notch petty much until his retirement. If you look at his career before his decline it's inarguable that he was the more talented batsman between him and Flower but looking at their careers as a whole Flower pulls out ahead by a decent margin.
But Flower's keeping was nowhere near Gilchrist's, which makes Gilly the better overall package by a fair way.
That is a genuinely horrific opinion. Did you ever actually see him bat? He succeeded "batting like a proper batsman" a lot, more than most proper batsmenNot sure why you are bringing up their keeping as the question of the OP is pretty much about batting and even mentioned to forget their keeping.
And yeah, I see absolutely no way Gilchrist can succeed batting like a proper batsman but I do think Flower would have been a good #7, even if not as aggressive as Gilchrist. Flower easily the better test batsman.
That is a genuinely horrific opinion. Did you ever actually see him bat? He succeeded "batting like a proper batsman" a lot, more than most proper batsmen
Yeah Gilchrist batted properly with a solid defense. He was just extremely quick to pounce on anything short of a length. He wasn't like Warner who required bat on ball to get going - he simply attacked anything not in the right area.
By batting at 7 and playing his shots without having to hold back due to the strength of the side he is in. I don't think he could have succeeded defending the ball and there is a lot of mental pressure if you are playing as a pure batsman. Hence the disparity you often see with blokes who tend to bat like this but then get picked as specialist batsmen.How does one average 55 for close to 70 Tests without batting like a proper batsman
I think what hb meant by 'proper' is that he doesn't see Gilchrist doing well if he tried to hold back and change his game completely to bat at a slower pace. I think that's fair, Gilchrist has maybe 1-2 innings of note where he scored slower than 75.
I do take issue with batting slower being considered 'proper' though. I actually think batting at his frenetic pace could help a weaker side more than chugging along while your side collapsed around you like Chanders or something.
HB, you can't make 20+ centuries and average 50 if you just come in and bat in a carefree manner because you have the luxury of playing in a strong XI. 30-35 I can see it, 50+ no way.
truly horrificBy batting at 7 and playing his shots without having to hold back due to the strength of the side he is in. I don't think he could have succeeded defending the ball and there is a lot of mental pressure if you are playing as a pure batsman. Hence the disparity you often see with blokes who tend to bat like this but then get picked as specialist batsmen.
"Proper" as in having to hold the responsibility of being one of the 5 or 6 main batters in the side.
There is no doubting Gilly is an ATG and redefined the role of the batsman/keeper but to take that as somehow meaning he had the game to succeed as a pure batsman is silly. Of course, his keeping skills are part of his genius as a cricketer and there is no reason why that should be discounted when discussing his greatness, but that is not what is being discussed here, is it?
**** me it keeps getting worseTell me why Australia never tried playing with 5 bowlers when Gilchrist was the keeper again, even when they badly needed it, like just after the 2005 Ashes when the search was on for the next Flintoff?
He wouldn't need to defend much, he could go about playing the same way he did.By batting at 7 and playing his shots without having to hold back due to the strength of the side he is in. I don't think he could have succeeded defending the ball and there is a lot of mental pressure if you are playing as a pure batsman. Hence the disparity you often see with blokes who tend to bat like this but then get picked as specialist batsmen.
Not outsHow does one average 55 for close to 70 Tests without batting like a proper batsman