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From the last 50 years, who has the worst ATG XI from the big 8? SL, NZ or England?

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Here's a question. What makes Kohli a significantly inferior test batsman to Richards? I can't think of any and I'll tell why I asked this after few replies
For me, Viv didn't have any holes in his technique like Kohli does. He dominated pace, swing, spin in all conditions. Not always, of course, but in a manner than Kohli hasn't done in England and NZ, for example
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
Australia, SA, India, Windies and Pakistan have had several ATGS since 1971, but SL, NZ and England are a bit lacking.


England have the least excuses as pre 1970 they produced ATGs all the time. But looking at all their all time teams, the first and second XI would have the majority of the outfit being old school players. The 3 Hs, Compton, May, Barrington to go with Trueman, Verity, Larwood, Bedser and Laker etc. Kinda sad


But from NZ, SL, and England, in recent history, who has the worst and best all time XI?


SL have 2 ATGs in Sanga and Murali, NZ have Hadlee and arguably KW, England have the half ATG half rubbish Botham and I guess other than that... Anderson in England?
Actually three. Prasanna Jayawardene has well. Best in the business during his playing days.

However we have a lot of very good players with varying capabilities. Mahela and Tillekaratne were very good on spinning wickets. Aravinda was better on fast bouncy wickets. Samaraweera was midway. Vaas was very serviceable on many tracks. Herath very good on helpful tracks. Malinga doesn't rely on pitch. Other seamers like Rumesh Ratnayake, Suranga Lakmal etc are sub 30 on non SC tracks.

It is always the mix of non heterogenous talent pool that led to SL success for two decades. Then came overcoaching and players became dull and homogenous in talent pool.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
Here's a question. What makes Kohli a significantly inferior test batsman to Richards? I can't think of any and I'll tell why I asked this after few replies
Also worth mentioning that Viv Richards had a largely productive and dip-free run as the best batsman in the world from 1976 until 1988, only declining in his last 2-3 years like Tendulkar.
 

ma1978

State Vice-Captain
I don’t think it was that clear. A couple years in the 70s yes but for that period it’s really hard to say he was indisputably better than Gavaskar, Chappell and Miandad. Even in his team you could argue for long periods Greenidge or Richardson were better.

inner circle ATG though
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
Also worth mentioning that Viv Richards had a largely productive and dip-free run as the best batsman in the world from 1976 until 1988, only declining in his last 2-3 years like Tendulkar.
He actually had a significant slump in the middle of that.

When Richards walked out to bat in the Boxing Day Test of 1981 his Test average was 62.01. When he walked out to bat in the Boxing Day Test of 1984 it had dropped to 52.98. Over the three years in between he played 27 Tests and averaged just 36.
 
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Gob

International Coach
So the reason I asked this question is because Viv makes in to most people's AT sides (including mine) and at worst would be in the 2nds while no one actually consider Kohli in these sort of teams. But when you look at them, they have quite a bit in common

1. Both were seen as the master batsmen and have the alpha male intimidating vibe
2. Both were feared by the peers
3. Both have claims to be regarded as the GOAT in ODIs and that always seem to affect their test standings
4. Unlike most ATGs, neither are seen as master batsmen vs spin but plays it well enough
5. Both have the tendency to play jaw dropping strokes that makes them looks a class above

I didn't see Richards bat live but based on footages, Kohli looks the closest it gets and I can't think of reasons to think one is far behind the other but in the grand scheme of things in tests, they seem way apart
 

smash84

The Tiger King
So the reason I asked this question is because Viv makes in to most people's AT sides (including mine) and at worst would be in the 2nds while no one actually consider Kohli in these sort of teams. But when you look at them, they have quite a bit in common

1. Both were seen as the master batsmen and have the alpha male intimidating vibe
2. Both were feared by the peers
3. Both have claims to be regarded as the GOAT in ODIs and that always seem to affect their test standings
4. Unlike most ATGs, neither are seen as master batsmen vs spin but plays it well enough
5. Both have the tendency to play jaw dropping strokes that makes them looks a class above

I didn't see Richards bat live but based on footages, Kohli looks the closest it gets and I can't think of reasons to think one is far behind the other but in the grand scheme of things in tests, they seem way apart
Kohli doesn't have that kind of vibe though and most peers don't fear Kohli the way they feared Viv.
 

Arachnodouche

International Captain
Kohli never had Tendulkar's technique but by 2018 he certainly looked like making up for it by weight of performances and bloody-minded commitment to his craft. This slump unfortunately has eaten into what should've been his peak years; hopefully being relieved of captaincy in a few formats helps because his failures still seem more a result of lapses in concentration than anything overtly technical.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Yeah I think that's more an Australian perception from Gob than anything. I'm not saying that to throw stones I'm saying that because Kohli has had at least two strong series against Australia.

The rest of the world, not so much. Sure you respect him because he will go down as a great player, but you also know there is a very clear plan to him and if you follow it you will get him early.

I don't think there were many plans to prime Viv.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Kohli never had Tendulkar's technique but by 2018 he certainly looked like making up for it by weight of performances and bloody-minded commitment to his craft. This slump unfortunately has eaten into what should've been his peak years; hopefully being relieved of captaincy in a few formats helps because his failures still seem more a result of lapses in concentration than anything overtly technical.
He follows the ball with his hands far more than your average world class player. His issues are entirely technical and I'm sure he's spending loads of time in the nets potentially even without a bat just watching the ball go through the corridor.
 

Daemon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
The rest of the world, not so much.
Just NZ isn’t it? Not good in England either but he at least had one amazing series there.

Two top class ones in SA against those attacks is nothing to scoff at either.

Don’t think he’s on par with Viv and agree on the weakness outside off, but his away record isn’t that bad all things considered.
 

Arachnodouche

International Captain
Is that technique or concentration though? What's there in his setup that could prompt him into following wide ones? Besides, he rarely gets out for nothing even today and spends a deal of time leaving on line and being judicious before losing patience. He had the restraint to sustain this focus on the last England tour but it's gone missing for whatever reason since.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Just NZ isn’t it? Not good in England either but he at least had one amazing series there.

Two top class ones in SA against those attacks is nothing to scoff at either.

Don’t think he’s on par with Viv and agree on the weakness outside off, but his away record isn’t that bad all things considered.
He's had one good England series, so maybe his 2(?) others are colouring my memory. He was really good in South Africa, especially that first trip around 2013 where he and Pujara announced themselves.

He's a pretty good away player all up, with maybe one other country bar England and NZ he hasn't had much success in (West Indies?), I'm not trying to say he's secretly bad.

Kohli suffers more from bad match ups than bad countries if that makes sense. If you have a tall outswing bowler in your side (or just a good one in Anderson's case) he is a lot more vulnerable than if you are relying on sheer pace or inswing.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
He actually had a significant slump in the middle of that.

When Richards walked out to bat in the Boxing Day Test of 1981 his Test average was 62.01. When he walked out to bat in the Boxing Day Test of 1984 it had dropped to 52.98. Over the three years in between he played 27 Tests and averaged just 36.
He actually had a significant slump in the middle of that.

When Richards walked out to bat in the Boxing Day Test of 1981 his Test average was 62.01. When he walked out to bat in the Boxing Day Test of 1984 it had dropped to 52.98. Over the three years in between he played 27 Tests and averaged just 36.
Viv's peak was from 1976 to 1981, averaging well over 60, while from 1981 to 1989, he still averaged 45, before a dip towards his career end. However, in terms of perception, he was still considered the best batsman in world cricket for much of the 80s even though his output decreased from his peak. He wasnt as consistent but was regularly scoring a century a series until around 1986.
 
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subshakerz

International Coach
Just NZ isn’t it? Not good in England either but he at least had one amazing series there.

Two top class ones in SA against those attacks is nothing to scoff at either.

Don’t think he’s on par with Viv and agree on the weakness outside off, but his away record isn’t that bad all things considered.
He also had a good series in NZ in 2014 but a horrible one in 2019.
 

Flem274*

123/5
He also had a good series in NZ in 2014 but a horrible one in 2019.
Hmm it looks better than it was, I'd call it OK. He made a threatening 60 at Eden Park during the chase which was a really good innings in an exciting test and then scored the most meaningless hundred of all time on a day 5 Basin motorway after the game India should have cruised had been buried by McCullum, Watling and Neesham. NZ had a speculative 50 overs at India to see what would happen.

When the games were live he scored 4, 67 and 38.

He was superb in the ODI series, which was a ridiculously close series despite the scoreline.
 

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