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England's focus going forward/how to fix our test match issues

Bijed

International Regular
Ok, so in the past 2 weeks or so, the English cricket team has done the following:

1. Won the World Cup
2. Come worryingly close to losing a test match to Ireland, with our many shortcomings in that format being pretty ruthlessly exposed in the process

I am firmly of the opinion that our advancement in ODIs has come directly at the expense of consistence and performance in test matches and appreciate that a renewed push for improvement in tests would probably mean sacrificing some of this limited-overs improvement. I also think that this would be completely worth it and I reckon that Travor Bayliss' departure being planned so far in advance means that this is probably the view of the ECB, but I'd like to hear people's arguments to the contrary.

The second thrust of this thread is: how do England go about improving in test matches? I appreciate that a): no problems can be fixed overnight; and b): we are inherently limited by the apparent paucity of test-standard batsmen out there. Hopefully whoever our new coach is will be far more focussed on tests (and actually pay attention to the County Championship) but other than that, what changes to either the England set up, or the domestic game, would people want to see (if any, and they can be highly specific or much broader).

One highly specific (and possibly controversial) change I would suggest would be to drop Root and/or Bairstow from the ODI team. I know this would be massively to the detriment of the ODI side, but I feel that a large part of their weaknesses in tests (not Root's recent form slump, more his issues with conversion and manner of some dismissals; and Bairstow's huge problem with balls coming back in to him - apparently he averages 6 against deliveries aimed at the stumps (can't remember what time period this was over)) have emerged over changes to their technique/mindset which have made them better in ODIs, but notably worse at tests. In an ideal world, players of their ability would be better at transferring their skills between formats, but life isn't that straightforward and as they ought to be our two key batsmen in tests, all things considered, I genuinely think we might need to make a tough call of this nature. Equally, of course, they could make adjustments to their technique/approach to improve their test performances and remain in the ODI team if we're willing to accept a drop-off from them in that format, which I reckon would be pretty much inevitable.
 
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Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I don't think Root's issues in Tests are linked to his One day batting but I do think it would be a really good thing if he could be persuaded to a take a long rest from limited overs cricket, just from a workload point of view. England play so much and if his career keeps going as it is then you would imagine him ending up retiring about the same age that Cook has.

Bairstow is just a way better one day player than he is Test match one so I don't see the point in messing with that. He has made it pretty clear that he wants to play as a keeper so just judge him on those terms, if he is not performing well enough then we have plenty of replacements.
 

Bijed

International Regular
Bairstow is just a way better one day player than he is Test match one so I don't see the point in messing with that.
Absolutely, and if I cared about tests and ODIs equally I'd be saying definitely keep him in the ODI side where he's been so good. But, especially now that we've had our moment of glory in the World Cup, I care much more about tests and so would be fine with taking the hit to the one-day side if it meant he could get back to being close to the test batsman we know he can be. But true, if Foakes or someone can usurp him with some quality performances that'd be the best of both worlds.

And yeah, I'm worried Root is going to burn out too. I do think his conversion issues started emerging at the same time as the ODI side began shifting it's style though, altoight admittedly correlation does not equal causation etc
 
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BSM

U19 Cricketer
The funny thing is, Root's conversion issue has quietly disappeared this year. Pretty sure his last three 50+ scores have been converted to 100s. The problem is that the first of those 50+ scores came all the way back in the last test against India last summer. I don't think it's been a matter of being burned out but simply lapses of concentration and maybe a phase of bad form. I don't think not playing ODI cricket will solve the problem, nor do I think it will shorten his career to a great extent. Keep in mind players like Kohli and Williamson both play all three formats, captain all three formats and play big roles in the IPL. I don't think there should be too much concern about schedule's mentally draining our players to the extent that we must take them away from certain teams to preserve the longevity of their careers. The effect I think is more short term i.e, that the ridiculously short turnover from the WC to the Ashes might end up making our players drained and perhaps not as prepared as they otherwise would be. In the long term however, as the schedule starts to become less demanding (though I think we have as much as 3 overseas tours before next summer) there shouldn't be too much of an impact on their careers going forward.

I guess Bairstow is a more interesting case, as his batting has certainly been impacted negatively by his success in ODIs. Yet I don't think he's worth departing with in ODI cricket just to make sure he can play a little better in tests, when it's not as if his form has been absolutely dire in the first place (I think he'll be well suited back at no.7 as it stands). If he can't perform then we get Foakes back in.
 

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
You have got Buttler as well of course, I would have no problem at all if we just went with him as a keeper. I just don't think Bairstow is going to happen as a top 5 player in Test matches now so I don't think there is much to be gained by trying it again, lets keep him as one of our best ever ODI players and possibly a strong 7 in Tests.

Long term if you go him or Buttler as a keeper then maybe someone like Pope can come in at 5. Obviously none of this addresses the real issue of the top order.
 

Bijed

International Regular
I guess Bairstow is a more interesting case, as his batting has certainly been impacted negatively by his success in ODIs. Yet I don't think he's worth departing with in ODI cricket just to make sure he can play a little better in tests, when it's not as if his form has been absolutely dire in the first place (I think he'll be well suited back at no.7 as it stands). If he can't perform then we get Foakes back in.
FWIW, since he started opening in ODIs, Bairstow averages 29.8 in tests, though it would of course be overly simplistic for me to 100% link the two. I suppose this isn't absolutely awful, but it's way below what I feel he could be offering and moreover, I get the feeling he's been fairly well found out until he can make some kind of technical adjustment. Btw, I'm not talking about trying to make him a specialist middle-order bat again, happy for him to stay at 7 and keep the gloves as Buttler is currently filling the no. 5 slot as well as any realistic candidate could tbh, and I don't think he'd see better results personally from moving down the order.

As for Root, I think his current poor form is just that - a form slump that just happens, but it's probably being exacerbated by captaincy and workload which, without a bit of a break will lead to burnout further down the line. Good point about his conversion rate (sort of ironically) having been fixed, I guess we'll see how it goes if/when he regains his old form. I agree that this specifically very quick turnaround won't help and good point re Kohli, but I'm not sure if the Williamson comparison stands as NZ don't play as much cricket as England (although, as you say, IPL)
 
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BSM

U19 Cricketer
Butler at 6 and Stokes at 5 imo, though I think those two are sort of inter changeable in those positions. Got a feeling that Butler is going to develop into quite a decent middle order batsmen in test cricket
 

BSM

U19 Cricketer
As for Root, I think his current poor form is just that - a form slump that just happens, but it's probably being exacerbated by captaincy and workload which, without a bit of a break will lead to burnout further down the line. Good point about his conversion rate (sort of ironically) having been fixed, I guess we'll see how it goes if/when he regains his old form. I agree that this specifically very quick turnaround won't help and good point re Kohli, but I'm not sure if the Williamson comparison stands as NZ don't play as much cricket as England (although, as you say, IPL)
Yeah good point about Williamson, and tbh no one really knows how long/how short careers end up being. It all depends on small factors that become more visible towards the end rather than in the middle of their careers, while high workloads can definitely make you worry about the longevity certain players will end up having in the game. Cook for example, was someone who you would have thought would make it towards his late 30s, as he ended up an exclusive test match batsmen towards the end of his career, but nonetheless retired early at 33
 

ImpatientLime

International Regular
this idea that players can't balance white and red ball cricket is weird outside of obvious technical deficiencies like bairstow and seems to be something only talked about in england.

some of these guys are just a) not as good as we originally thought in red ball cricket (root) or b) just not very good at it full stop (bairstow).
 

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