England v New Zealand (SUPER OVER? BOUNDARY COUNTBACK?) at Abu Dhabi, 11-10 Wednesday (N), Semi-final #1

[SteveNZ]

Honestly, I just scratch my head sometimes when I watch seasoned professionals, who play more than enough T20, bowl the way England did at the death.

How are Neesham and Mitchell going to hurt you? Over the leg side with length. Where did they predominantly bowl? Straight length. Mitchell scored 19 of his 72 runs through the off side, predominantly singles. Yet Woakes honestly bowls one of the worst death overs I've ever seen, where he hits the hole (ish) first ball and it goes well, then bowls four in the slot and a massive leg side full bunger when the game is over.

Rashid bowls in Neesham's arc, and when he finally bowls wide wrong-uns - even though Neesham knows that's coming - he gets out. Jordan did the same mostly - rubbish control and bowling exactly where Neesham wanted him to.

 

[SteveNZ]

On the other side of the coin...this is going to be gushier than a hole in the Hoover dam but my god, I am just beyond proud of my cricket side. They are just an incredible group of people.

It's absolutely ridiculous for people like me and the posters on this forum that coming from where we were at the turn of the 2010s, absolute laughing stock, that we have now made 4 of the last 5 international finals, and the last 3 in a row.

I thought the Bruce Oxenford interview praising us hit the nail on the head, that we win games of cricket and are always competitive because of our mindset and the resilience of the guys in this set-up. We're not the most explosive team, nor anywhere the skill level of an Australia circa 2000s or anything like that, but we are so consistent and never beaten. I stayed up all night for the 2019 final, I watched every ball of the WTC final and I was up at 3am this morning because I know my side is always going to be in the contest and I'm a very good chance of being rewarded for my sleep deprivation with a result like this morning. The euphoria when Mitchell hit the winning runs was well worth it

 

[SteveNZ]

Stolen from Cricinfo.

Shows how bad England bowled when it was managed in 3 overs!!!

"New Zealand chased down 57 runs in the last four overs, the most target runs successfully chased by any team in men's T20Is at the death overs (where we have BBB data). Previous most was 56 by Australia vs Pakistan 2010 and Zimbabwe vs Scotland 2021."

And we did it in 3 overs. Ridiculous.

 

[Flem274*]

Guess I should get up for the final then.

Would feel more comfortable if the bloke who averages 13 wasn't injured, but we'll see how NZ go.

The final will be good practice against our Australia mental block in a low stakes game or a chance to really wind up those Pakistani facebook posters even more.

 

[SpinBin]

Well done NZ.

Though I often feel losing the semi-final in this type of tournament is worse than losing the final.

England have done well, the 2 games they lost weren't hammerings but who cares, semi-final, meh.

Hoping for a Pak Vs NZ final too.

 

[kevinw]

Yeah. I think a few players, especially Rashid and Jordan, have been under par for a while now and need to be told 'thank you for all you've done but we're moving on to look at other players now'

In Australia I'd look at Buttler, Vince, Malan and Livingstone being the top 4. Roy will probably still be in contention but I'd move on from Bairstow. Stokes and Billings 5/6. Billings looks a bit of a meh pick probably but think he has ability. S Curran and Woakes followed by Archer, Dawson (underrated imo) and one of Mills/Topley

EDIT : Livingstone is an absolute weapon. That guy along with Buttler could single-handedly destroy attacks with ease next year. Bat him in the top 4!

Bar a collapse in form/retirements, I wouldn't expect many changes for the next WC. I don't see a lot of guys emerging with the bat immediately. Brook could come good, so might Will Jacks. But they need a couple more strong seasons in the domestic game. Banton went off the boil too. Maybe Salt's change of scenery will work out for him. Joe Clarke might come off the naughty step. You're right about Livingstone. He shouldn't bat any lower than four.

More pressing is the bowling, which looks pretty ordinary under pressure, in the final overs. Woakes bowled superbly in the PP, but looked like a guy who's not played much T20 (which he is) at the back end. Jordan's rep as a death bowler is better than the reality. Wood has one plan - back of a length with pace on. TCurran has variations, most of which are fodder. SCurran doesn't have much to scare a decent bat. Not sure Mills is likely to be a reliable option. They've got to look again at Mahmood and hope Pat Brown comes back after injuries. Maybe Garton - he looked alright in the IPL. Very few good pace options in the short term really.

 

[Bahnz]

Whodda thunkit 2 years ago that Southee would be our bowler of the tournament in a T20 World Cup?

 

[smash84]

Whodda thunkit 2 years ago that Southee would our bowler of the tournament in a T20 World Cup?

I am still not convinced of his death bowling (for good reason) but NZ should really try to get all his overs out in the first 10. He's done fairly well in the PPs this WC, every time he's brought back at the death, he ****s all over the place.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

On the other side of the coin...this is going to be gushier than a hole in the Hoover dam but my god, I am just beyond proud of my cricket side. They are just an incredible group of people.

It's absolutely ridiculous for people like me and the posters on this forum that coming from where we were at the turn of the 2010s, absolute laughing stock, that we have now made 4 of the last 5 international finals, and the last 3 in a row.

I thought the Bruce Oxenford interview praising us hit the nail on the head, that we win games of cricket and are always competitive because of our mindset and the resilience of the guys in this set-up. We're not the most explosive team, nor anywhere the skill level of an Australia circa 2000s or anything like that, but we are so consistent and never beaten. I stayed up all night for the 2019 final, I watched every ball of the WTC final and I was up at 3am this morning because I know my side is always going to be in the contest and I'm a very good chance of being rewarded for my sleep deprivation with a result like this morning. The euphoria when Mitchell hit the winning runs was well worth it

That Oxenford interview was so great to read … and totally summed up again today when Mitchell didn’t take the run when he bumped into Rashid … with 34 needed off 18 in a semi for goodness sake! Truly a team to be extremely proud of, they encapsulate everything that’s good about NZ.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Oh hey we won

 

[thierry henry]

English fans being a bit dramatic wanting big changes all of a sudden. Through 36 overs you had NZ needing a world record last 4 overs to win. Basically a winning performance but for 3 overs of bowling.

 

[Bahnz]

I am still not convinced of his death bowling (for good reason) but NZ should really try to get all his overs out in the first 10. He's done fairly well in the PPs this WC, every time he's brought back at the death, he ****s all over the place.

Again, I think the issue is that with the current balance of the side it's very hard to avoid bowling Southee in at least 1 over out of the final 5. Neesham's even more of a liability at the death than Southee and it's usually going to be hard saving 4 overs of Boult/Milne (and Milne I don't think is much better at the death than Southee anyway). I think NZ are just banking on the fact that Southee's front 3 overs are generally good enough to more than balance a 10-15 run over at the finish.

The day will come of course when the openers get a hold of him in the power play and he finishes with 0/50. Just hope it's not this weekend.

 

[straw man]

I thought the Bruce Oxenford interview praising us hit the nail on the head, that we win games of cricket and are always competitive because of our mindset and the resilience of the guys in this set-up. We're not the most explosive team, nor anywhere the skill level of an Australia circa 2000s or anything like that, but we are so consistent and never beaten. I stayed up all night for the 2019 final, I watched every ball of the WTC final and I was up at 3am this morning because I know my side is always going to be in the contest and I'm a very good chance of being rewarded for my sleep deprivation with a result like this morning. The euphoria when Mitchell hit the winning runs was well worth it

Yeah there's only one option if we play Australia in the final after failing against them every other time in recent memory. Be even nicer. We want guards of honour and bouquets of flowers for every Australian player please.

 

[Burgey]

Guess I should get up for the final then.

Would feel more comfortable if the bloke who averages 13 wasn't injured, but we'll see how NZ go.

The final will be good practice against our Australia mental block in a low stakes game or a chance to really wind up those Pakistani facebook posters even more.

See how tonight goes first. If Aus wins you may as well get some sleep and save yourself the angst.

 

[straw man]

Again, I think the issue is that with the current balance of the side it's very hard to avoid bowling Southee in at least 1 over out of the final 5. Neesham's even more of a liability at the death than Southee and it's usually going to be hard saving 4 overs of Boult/Milne (and Milne I don't think is much better at the death than Southee anyway). I think NZ are just banking on the fact that Southee's front 3 overs are generally good enough to more than balance a 10-15 run over at the finish.

The day will come of course when the openers get a hold of him in the power play and he finishes with 0/50. Just hope it's not this weekend.

Also there's just the fact bowling death overs in T20s is an incredibly difficult and thankless task and doubly so if you're a medium pacer with no special weapons other than experience/guile. Like Jordan and Woakes today - they did get it wrong but had few options with both on-pace and off going the distance. They clearly felt they couldn't hit yorker length either, though in hindsight would've been worth a go. We've seen Southee punished at the end many times, but there's not a whole lot of bowlers in any side that would be substantially better.

I don't honestly know who NZ's best death bowlers are - all of Boult, Southee, Ferguson, Milne and Neesham have had successes and failures. Statistics might give some guidance though T20 is just so situational that I'm not sure. So we can keep muddling through an over from each and hope it doesn't bite us.

On another note, loved to see the new ball swing in the first couple of overs this match.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I would rather beat the Aussies in the final (great to take out all of the big 3 in the tournament) but if we beat Pakistan in the final we go to no 1 in the world in all 3 formats.

 

[ataraxia]

Santner should bowl the 16th or 17th normally.

 

[SteveNZ]

Again, I think the issue is that with the current balance of the side it's very hard to avoid bowling Southee in at least 1 over out of the final 5. Neesham's even more of a liability at the death than Southee

Do you think? I feel as if Jimmy is OK at it. Bowls a natural enough full length, has a slower ball option etc. And if we're looking at the comparative advantage of Southee bowling 4 earlier on, v 1 later on and someone else (Neesham et al) bowling one earlier, I feel as if I'd be happy with Jimmy doing the job. He has handled it in the past too

 

[Bahnz]

Jimmy's inconsistent. He was brilliant in the WC final a couple of years ago, but he falls away so heavily in his delivery stride that he's badly prone to losing his radar and dishing up complete crap. I think he's more the kinda bowler who you go to make up an over at the death if one of the frontline bowlers is having a bad day.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Do you think? I feel as if Jimmy is OK at it. Bowls a natural enough full length, has a slower ball option etc. And if we're looking at the comparative advantage of Southee bowling 4 earlier on, v 1 later on and someone else (Neesham et al) bowling one earlier, I feel as if I'd be happy with Jimmy doing the job. He has handled it in the past too

He seems to do a pretty decent job more often than not, it’s gotta be said. I feel fine when he’s handed the ball in the final few overs.