England complain

[TNT]

I cant make out what the actual complaint is, see if you can.

England complain after DRS controversy
England have made an official complaint after the controversial dismissal of opener Mark Stoneman in this third Magellan Ashes Test.
UK newspaper The Mirror is reporting skipper Joe Root has spoken to the match referee Sir Richie Richardson not so much about the fact that Stoneman was dismissed, but rather the method by which the decision was made by third umpire Aleem Dar.
England complain after DRS controversy | cricket.com.au

 

[Gnske]

He's right about the decision making process I guess, but this is like claiming a Hollywood exec made ***ual advances on you then complaining about it decades later.

Why even bother?

 

[TNT]

So basically the umpires could have taken more time to arrive at the same decision.

 

[Woodster]

I think it’s pretty obvious and if you’ve seen it.....they’re absolutely right.

 

[Dan]

To me, umpiring is all about process. I'd rather see an umpire follow a proper decision-making process every time, and end up with a wrong decision on a marginal call, than mix process with guess-work and get that one marginal call right through sheer luck.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's right that something should have been done to improve the process because Aleem Dar really did **** it up. Sure the right decision was made but what if it happens again and Aleem Dar does the same thing and ends up making the wrong decision because of his incompetence? So they need to make sure he learns how to umpire correctly.

It would have been nice if the match panel just looked after it themselves because inevitably it's going to look bad when England are the ones who "complain" about it, even though it was the correct decision, and when they are struggling massively as a cricket team. Of course it's going to come across as sour grapes.

 

[quincywagstaff]

Has Aleem Dar been the 3rd ump that often? Got the sense in his processes (which have changed over the course of the match) that he isnt used to it.

 

[Second Spitter]

Dar is definitely inexperienced in this role. During the review of Khawaja's dismissal he incorrectly identified a hot spot but was quickly corrected by the technician that sits alongside the 3rd umps. It all happened very quickly and not many people noticed.

Can you imagine the outcry if there wasn't a person sitting next to him to guide him??

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I think we need a proper technical guy trained as an umpire to do the the 3rd umpire job. It is clear at times that the 3rd umpires aren't totally sure what they are doing and the Stoneman dismissal was one of them. England right to complain as getting it wrong but ending with the right outcome still isn't satisfactory. If the technology is there to get it right then get trained people in to work the system properly.

 

[Second Spitter]

I'm with you. I'm convinced a cricket IT nerd would do a better job than on-field umps. Somebody like Gnske.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Why bother? Stoneman would have probably just converted his 50 into a 60. Who cares?

 

[oblongballs]

I think the complaint is absolute rubbish and feeds into the world famous "whinging poms" narrative.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Why bother? Stoneman would have probably just converted his 50 into a 60. Who cares?

I don't think you understand what happened. He wouldn't have "probably just converted his 50 into a 60", he would have been out on 50 because the correct decision was made

 

[S.Kennedy]

I don't think you understand what happened. He wouldn't have "probably just converted his 50 into a 60", he would have been out on 50 because the correct decision was made

Well if it was the correct decision that was made then it was made. It is academic either way and does not invalidate my point that complaining about it is a complete waste of time and energy.

 

[quincywagstaff]

I think we need a proper technical guy trained as an umpire to do the the 3rd umpire job. It is clear at times that the 3rd umpires aren't totally sure what they are doing and the Stoneman dismissal was one of them. England right to complain as getting it wrong but ending with the right outcome still isn't satisfactory. If the technology is there to get it right then get trained people in to work the system properly.

You make a good point. The convention of cricket umpires handling these largely technical tasks seemed to be just an assumed continuation of them doing the Run-Out/Stumping role in the 1990s/2000s. But I don't see any valid reason why DRS should be handled by an umpire.

As an aside, iirc wasn't Daryl Harper notoriously bad at doing the DRS role in its early days? I seem to recall him making a lot of baffling errors during the 2009 Windies/England series.

 

[oblongballs]

What difference would a "technical guy" make? Do you not realise the technology is not handled by the 3rd ump, he simply uses it to review the decision. I highly doubt all of you are "technical" guys and yet everyone has come to the conclusion it was not out. So the issue isnt someone having an IT degree or not, the issue is Dar was wrong but it happens. That's umpiring. DRS has eliminated probably 90% of wrong/bad decisions but it can't be perfect because humans are not perfect.

 

[Bijed]

What difference would a "technical guy" make? Do you not realise the technology is not handled by the 3rd ump, he simply uses it to review the decision. I highly doubt all of you are "technical" guys and yet everyone has come to the conclusion it was not out. So the issue isnt someone having an IT degree or not, the issue is Dar was wrong but it happens. That's umpiring. DRS has eliminated probably 90% of wrong/bad decisions but it can't be perfect because humans are not perfect.

I thought the problem wasn't that Dar was wrong (people seem happy that it was out) but that the process he used to arrive at his decision was flawed and could have resulted in an incorrect decision being made. I agree with your first and last sentences, though I would suggest that even if the third umpire doesn't need to directly operate the technology, having specialist 3rd umpires still wouldn't be a bad idea, as they'd just rack up so much more experience using the system that whilst mistakes would still inevitably happen, they should be much fewer and further between. I think they should be (relatively) easy to train, since I guess they'd only need to know a limited part of the laws?

That said, does Dar's (an experienced umpire) seeming to struggle with the process of 3rd umpiring suggest that the standards to which existing umpires are trained with the system are basically inadequate?

 

[TheJediBrah]

What difference would a "technical guy" make? Do you not realise the technology is not handled by the 3rd ump, he simply uses it to review the decision. I highly doubt all of you are "technical" guys and yet everyone has come to the conclusion it was not out. So the issue isnt someone having an IT degree or not, the issue is Dar was wrong but it happens. That's umpiring. DRS has eliminated probably 90% of wrong/bad decisions but it can't be perfect because humans are not perfect.

I'm with this actually. The 3rd umpire's job when handling a DRS referral is not technical in the slightest. They don't operate any of the equipment, just "analyse" the results, and even then it's not like much analysis is really needed.

The errors that have happened or "mistakes" like this one are in no way a result of a lack of technical expertise. It's just a lack of common sense/professional incompetence, possibly brought about by being under pressure.

Not that I don't think an IT guy who's not an umpire couldn't do it. I think anyone with common sense and a vague knowledge of cricket could do it.

 

[TNT]

More complaints from Bayliss, he thinks the WACA pitch is dangerous, time to call the match off.

 

[Daemon]

I'm with this actually. The 3rd umpire's job when handling a DRS referral is not technical in the slightest. They don't operate any of the equipment, just "analyse" the results, and even then it's not like much analysis is really needed.

The errors that have happened or "mistakes" like this one are in no way a result of a lack of technical expertise. It's just a lack of common sense/professional incompetence, possibly brought about by being under pressure.

Not that I don't think an IT guy who's not an umpire couldn't do it. I think anyone with common sense and a vague knowledge of cricket could do it.

I think the most likeliest explanation is that Dar just had a brain fade and forgot that it's not out if the glove is off the handle