Dravid goes to number 1 in test ratings

[FaaipDeOiad]

It may be true for many but certainly not all the "All Time XI's" posted here for test matches.

Not all, but the vast majority.

 

[SJS]

Not all, but the vast majority.

Yes, possibly.

 

[C_C]

i would pick Gilly in my alltime OZ/World XI too but players like Andy Flower, Rod Marsh and Allan Knott would be very close(predominantly due to superior glovework or in Andy's case, it just boils down to Gilly being a snug fit at #7 while Andy has competition in the middle order).

 

[social]

i would pick Gilly in my alltime OZ/World XI too but players like Andy Flower, Rod Marsh and Allan Knott would be very close(predominantly due to superior glovework or in Andy's case, it just boils down to Gilly being a snug fit at #7 while Andy has competition in the middle order).

Gilchrist was inferior to Knott as a keeper but a much better bat, at least equal to Marsh as a keeper (who was ordinary vs spin) and a much better bat, and better in both depts than Flower.

 

[Dasa]

He has revolutionised the role of a wicketkeeper and is so far in front of anybody else in history it's not funny - 14 teast centuries and barely a meaningful keeping mistake are statistics that dont lie.

Les Ames.

 

[C_C]

and better in both depts than Flower.

Disagree...i think Flower was every bit as good a test batsman as Gilly is and every bit as good a keeper....
Reason i said it is close between Gilly and Knott/Healey/Marsh/Flower etc ( well i explained Flower) is because i think if you are picking an alltime XI or OZ XI which is chock-full of batsmen, (most of whom are superior to Gillchrist), the role of each batsman diminishes....and ideally speaking, a lineup of Gavaskar, Gooch,Bradman,Tendulkar,Viv and Sobers would more often than not put the score in such a zone that you wouldnt need a ton from gilly... and if they crumbled in face of inspiring bowling, i dont see Gilly holding up the fort too often- a display that will scythe through the likes of Gavaskar,Bradman,Tendulkar and Viv would most likely count Gilly as its next victim......but yes, he will contribute more with the bat than any other keeper barring Flower....
but when you got 4 of the greatest bowlers ever operating in your lineup, your keeping is gonna be scrutinised extremely..... and your keeping skills will have to be at extreme best...
Overall i would pick Gilly more often than someone like Knott for example because of his batting but i can just as easily counter the batting disadvantage from dropping Gilly by including an alternate bowling lineup consisting of a few more allrounders....

For eg, if i were to go with Hadlee-Marshall-McGrath-Murali, i could easily drop Gilly and McGrath and instead include Knott and Imran Khan.......where Knott and Imran's batting would counterbalance Gilly/McGrath's batting and Imran for McGrath switch in the bowling is a very small dip.

 

[SJS]

Les Ames.

Well said.

He was so good a batsman (one of the finest in the world in his time) that people found it difficult to relate to his keeping in which too he is supposed to have been one of the all time greats.

It is difficult to find a book on all time great keepers and not fing Ames included in it, ON KEEPING MERIT ALONE.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Les Ames.

Yep. He's the only real challenge for Gilchrist, in my book.

 

[aussie]

aussie

Disagree...i think Flower was every bit as good a test batsman as Gilly is and every bit as good a keeper....
Reason i said it is close between Gilly and Knott/Healey/Marsh/Flower etc ( well i explained Flower) is because i think if you are picking an alltime XI or OZ XI which is chock-full of batsmen, (most of whom are superior to Gillchrist), the role of each batsman diminishes....and ideally speaking, a lineup of Gavaskar, Gooch,Bradman,Tendulkar,Viv and Sobers would more often than not put the score in such a zone that you wouldnt need a ton from gilly... and if they crumbled in face of inspiring bowling, i dont see Gilly holding up the fort too often- a display that will scythe through the likes of Gavaskar,Bradman,Tendulkar and Viv would most likely count Gilly as its next victim......but yes, he will contribute more with the bat than any other keeper barring Flower....
but when you got 4 of the greatest bowlers ever operating in your lineup, your keeping is gonna be scrutinised extremely..... and your keeping skills will have to be at extreme best...
Overall i would pick Gilly more often than someone like Knott for example because of his batting but i can just as easily counter the batting disadvantage from dropping Gilly by including an alternate bowling lineup consisting of a few more allrounders....

For eg, if i were to go with Hadlee-Marshall-McGrath-Murali, i could easily drop Gilly and McGrath and instead include Knott and Imran Khan.......where Knott and Imran's batting would counterbalance Gilly/McGrath's batting and Imran for McGrath switch in the bowling is a very small dip.

very interesting post CC, some very good points and that can bring cause for an arguement

 

[social]

Yep. He's the only real challenge for Gilchrist, in my book.

Have a look at his record - padded by runs against minnows.

In his time, the only worthwhile opposition was Aus, against whom he averaged 27. That's good for a keeper but irrelevant when compared to Gilchrist.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Have a look at his record - padded by runs against minnows.

In his time, the only worthwhile opposition was Aus, against whom he averaged 27. That's good for a keeper but irrelevant when compared to Gilchrist.

Yeah, it's his FC record which is much more impressive than his test record, and given that his record when he did play at the highest standard is not quite up to what he had achieved at lower levels I don't rate him as highly as Gilchrist, but I think he has a fair claim to be the second best keeper-batsman ever.

 

[C_C]

if the best keeper/batsman ever is Gillchrist, the second best or joint best is Andy Flower....
i find that people underrate him stupendously when he perfomed just as well as Gilly with the bat and gloves.....while shouldering a much bigger responsibility.

 

[marc71178]

if the best keeper/batsman ever is Gillchrist, the second best or joint best is Andy Flower....
i find that people underrate him stupendously when he perfomed just as well as Gilly with the bat and gloves.....while shouldering a much bigger responsibility.

Of course they do, Flower isn't Australian!

 

[Richard]

So don't take them seriously, and nobody will take your first chance average or 4.5 eco cutoff point or your theories about fingerspinners or McGrath's lucky wickets seriously, given that they have some idea about cricket.

Sadly for you, people already take them seriously, because some people are not locked in convetional ways.

 

[Richard]

So just about anyone except you doesn't have a realistic mind then.

Yep, that'd be about right.
Except that there are plenty who don't bother with what the rankings show.

 

[Richard]

They seem fairly accurate to me as a guide to who the form cricketers are . What's your problem with them?

That people use them to try and say stuff like "the number one" or "the best" or "the top" etc. bowler\batsman in The World.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Sadly for you, people already take them seriously, because some people are not locked in convetional ways.

Nobody takes them seriously except for you. Seriously, name me one respected cricketing pundit who believes that McGrath gets his wickets because he is lucky rather than because he is one of the all time great seamers. ONE. Name me one respected cricketing pundit who believes we should discount all runs scored by a batsman if he is dropped. ONE. Name me one respected cricketing pundit who believes that all bowlers who have an ODI eco rate above 4.5 are useless... ONE. Oh that's right... there aren't any.

 

[Swervy]

Nobody takes them seriously except for you. Seriously, name me one respected cricketing pundit who believes that McGrath gets his wickets because he is lucky rather than because he is one of the all time great seamers. ONE. Name me one respected cricketing pundit who believes we should discount all runs scored by a batsman if he is dropped. ONE. Name me one respected cricketing pundit who believes that all bowlers who have an ODI eco rate above 4.5 are useless... ONE. Oh that's right... there aren't any.

i can see almost to the word what Richards response will be

 

[C_C]

before Richards sifts through tons of stuff, lemme point out that stuff from Nav Sidhu, Chris broad, Manjrekar and Aamir sohail does not count.

Faaip... technically speaking, cant we argue that the very existance of Richard is due to 'sheer luck' of which sperm won the race ?

 

[marc71178]

An interesting take on things there C_C!