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Does ODI Form Relate to Test Selection?

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Ive been arguing with someone who believes that Lee should be picked in front of Kasprowicz for the WACA test based on his one day form.

But I strongly believe that one day and test form shouldnt be mixed when i comes to selection time.

They are totally different. Objectives of both batsmen and bowlers are different, field placing are different, captaincy is different etc etc.

What do you think about the matter?
 

Son Of Coco

Hall of Fame Member
Prince EWS said:
Ive been arguing with someone who believes that Lee should be picked in front of Kasprowicz for the WACA test based on his one day form.

But I strongly believe that one day and test form shouldnt be mixed when i comes to selection time.

They are totally different. Objectives of both batsmen and bowlers are different, field placing are different, captaincy is different etc etc.

What do you think about the matter?
I agree, unless Kasper loses form in the test arena then Lee should be made to wait. Unfortunately for Lee it was a loss of form in the first place that saw him dropped......I have to give him credit for bowling well tonight though.
 

duffer

Hall of Fame Member
Kasper has done nothign wrong in the Tests, as such he probably shouldn't feel threatened by Brett at this stage.

But if Lee can get himself into some form and confidence in the next couple of one-day games one could argue that it would be foolish to overlook a bowler bowling that well for a Test where conditions would suit him down to the ground and against opponents who struggle in Aussie conditions.
 

andyc

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
i think that performance in odi's do have some impact on test selection, and i feel that is a good thing. if lee performs like he did tonight, or better, and kasper underperforms, i would not be surprised or frankly that disappointed if lee was selecter ahead of him. like you said duffer, itd be foolish to overlook someone consistently performing well.
 

Buddhmaster

International Captain
Though IMO it shouldn't, based on Prince EWS comments, i think that the selectors will look at one day form. If Kasper doesn't do very well in the next game, he might be overlooked because of Lee's great form and because it's the WACA.
 

anzac

International Debutant
it would appear that selectors look to ODIs as a stepping stone to full Test selection & this would apply equally for established players as well as novices........

provided the players in question have displayed the required attributes for the longer game, then IMO selection favours momentum / runs on the board / wickets in the bag................etc
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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It depends on how the runs are scored or wickets taken, rather than the fact that they have been. Only if the player shows a capacity to be able to stand up to quality bowling, rather than quality ODI bowling should ODI form be taken into consideration.

By the same consideration, players who fail to score heavily or break stumps in ODI cricket, but haven't looked bad, should be given a chance at Test level if they merit it by FC scores. Above all, a player should be selected for Test cricktet by FC performances ahead of limited overs performances.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
I think it should be done on a combination of the 2 - ODI Cricket is still International Cricket, so the pressures are a lot higher than those of domestic games, so if they can cope with the pressure then that IMO is a lot of battle won.
 

Mr Casson

Cricketer Of The Year
I agree with Marc, a healthy balance between ODIs and FC performances should be the key to selection.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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marc71178 said:
I think it should be done on a combination of the 2 - ODI Cricket is still International Cricket, so the pressures are a lot higher than those of domestic games, so if they can cope with the pressure then that IMO is a lot of battle won.
My point was really that you don't pick a batsman for Test cricket based on ODI cricket alone. Rather that batsman has to show the competence to deal with FC cricket first. Basically I agree with the essence of your post.
 

Mr Casson

Cricketer Of The Year
Prince EWS said:
I dont think it should have an impact at all.

They are totally different games.
They aren't totally different in the strict interpretation of the term.
 

Will Scarlet

U19 Debutant
OD form should have some impact, but the type of player also needs to be evaluated.

Some excellent ODI bowlers such as Gavin Larsen took their wickets by strangling the RR and forcing the batsmen to take risks. Unfortunately for such bowlers these tactics seldom work in tests. Similarly, batsmen like Marshall work the quick singles without taking the bowling apart, as ODI fields are much more defensive, allowing such play. Again, test captains would set appropriate fields to stop this.

Smashing a quick 30-60 can change the course of an ODI but far less significant in a test. Averaging 20-30 at a S/R of around 100 is not acceptable for front-line test batsmen.

Therefore, AUS would be stupid to drop Kazp because of his ODI form.
 

age_master

Hall of Fame Member
i doubt Kaspa will play another ODI this series, his test form has been good though - i would say its more likley that Lee get picked as a 5th bowler than replacing kaspa.
 

mavric41

State Vice-Captain
Prince EWS said:
I dont think it should have an impact at all.

They are totally different games.
There was a case in point last summer that both Williams and Bracken were chosen for tests because of good ODI form and both struggled and showed a distinct lack of class.

There is no way Kaspa should be dropped for one bad over. Besides Lee showed a noticeable drop in pace in his second and third spells.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Okay, to those who disagreed with me, I pose this question.

Should players be DROPPED from a test squad based on poor ODI form?

I can understand how good ODI form could have an impact, but what about poor ODI form?
 

howardj

International Coach
Lee's Test Match bowling average in his last 10 matches: 37 (versus Kaspa 25)

Lee's Test Match bowling average since July 2001: 38 (versus Kaspa 26)

I have no problem with Lee in the ODI team, as the short bursts suit his style of bowling. But, in Tests, the guy is so over-rated, it's ridiculous. They are totally different games, and Lee should stick to ODI's.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Prince EWS said:
Okay, to those who disagreed with me, I pose this question.

Should players be DROPPED from a test squad based on poor ODI form?

I can understand how good ODI form could have an impact, but what about poor ODI form?
That'd be ridiculous. If a Test player is scoring hundreds, but struggling in ODI cricket then you keep him playing Tests. The basis for continued selection at Test level should be Test performances, not anything to do with ODIs.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
That'd be ridiculous. If a Test player is scoring hundreds, but struggling in ODI cricket then you keep him playing Tests. The basis for continued selection at Test level should be Test performances, not anything to do with ODIs.
Exactly, hence Kasprowicz's poor ODI form should not keep him out of the test side, where he has performed so brilliantly.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Prince EWS said:
I dont think it should have an impact at all.

They are totally different games.
Not quite totally different, but easily different enough for ODIs not to count for anything when Test-selection is done (and vice-versa).
There are so many players who can do one form of the game and not the other, more than enough for me to say that I'd never really consider ODIs or Tests when thinking about selecting someone for the other.
"Being able to cope with the international pressure" is totally irrelevant if you've not got the ability.
 

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