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Clive Rice

Swervy

International Captain
There was more to his career than those 2 matches, y'know.

What have you got against Dakin? He was far more accurate than many.
yeah I am fully aware of that, however his career was essentially defined by those two games. Its a cruel game

What have i got against Dakin?

Genuinely typical county plodder.

As a bowler, barely seconds standard....no matter what those stats say, whatever they might be that would lead you to beleive he was overly accurate
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
No, that's not my only reason. I said quite clearly that it was shambolic and amateurish. Coaching was very poor and usually confined to one person, and it was routine for players to clamber onto the bus clasping a 24-pack of lager - which is about the ultimate statement of lack of attention-to-detail and laissez-faire. Those days are long-gone now, and the game's played at a higher standard because of it.
Well Cricket as a whole was amateurish in the 80s, How many International teams had coaches ?

Cricket has progressed overall and it can not be a reason to say that county cricket was of any lower standard.
 

Fiery

Banned
"Rice was considered by many to be the finest all-rounder in the world until a neck injury virtually ruled him out of full-time bowling in 1982": Richard Hadlee - At The Double

Even after his injury in 1984 he competed in a Sports Sponsorship International all-rounder's competition with Botham, Marshall, Kapil Dev and Hadlee. Rice won FWIW.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Not really. Hick and Smith are both imports and had been playing since the early 1980s, Stewart had been playing since the early 1980s too, and Atherton, Hussain and Ramprakash (as well as Thorpe) barely played a thing in the late 1980s and were mostly products of the 1990s.
Import or not, they played in county cricket for years befiore they became eligible to play for England.This is exactly proves my point that County Cricket was of higher standard because good players from all over the world flocked to play in England. Now its mostly the mediocre players, national discards end up in County cricket.

Arthers and Ramprakash both played at least 3 seasons in 80s, hardly a product of 90s. Dont know much about Hussain's prowess in the county circuit, dont remember anything about him until he played for England. I never claimed anything about Thorpe.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Sir Richard Hadlee spoke very, very highly off him in a book I read that he wrote and really that is the only piece of evidence I have to judge him on, other than stats. Seemed a fantastic player though, and as so many South Africans of the era, just a shame his career coincided with apartheid.
 

Poker Boy

State Vice-Captain
IMO county cricket was at its worst in the late 80s. They had got rid of uncovered pitches in 1980 which meant three day matches could only get results with either (a) dodgy pitches or (b) agreeed declarations with crap "buffet bowling" to set them up (the sort of nonsense that let the likes of Glenn Chapple score very fast centuaries), It wasn't until four day cricket and penalties to deter dodgy pitches were introduced things started to improve. And of course in the late 80s the overseas players went from two to one (probably correctly but it didn't help the standard). If you want to know the difference betwen CC now and the late 80s see the Test debuts of Mike Atherton and Alistair Cook. Neither had played a lot of CC prior to debut but one hit the ground running and the other impressed I Chappell - but with his leg spin not his batting.:laugh:
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Import or not, they played in county cricket for years befiore they became eligible to play for England.
Not that many games, though.
This is exactly proves my point that County Cricket was of higher standard because good players from all over the world flocked to play in England. Now its mostly the mediocre players, national discards end up in County cricket.
How on Earth do you connect those two? Even just 7 or 8 years ago there were a large number of international stars playing in the English domestic game. The only reason it's stopped is because of increased international schedules, not because players are shunning it.
Arthers and Ramprakash both played at least 3 seasons in 80s, hardly a product of 90s. Dont know much about Hussain's prowess in the county circuit, dont remember anything about him until he played for England. I never claimed anything about Thorpe.
They didn't play seasons, though, they were at University. Atherton was brought into the England side just a few months out of Uni.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
yeah I am fully aware of that, however his career was essentially defined by those two games. Its a cruel game
So? Those 2 games weren't all his career, and most of the rest of his career aside from those 2 was wholly poor.
What have i got against Dakin?

Genuinely typical county plodder.

As a bowler, barely seconds standard....no matter what those stats say, whatever they might be that would lead you to beleive he was overly accurate
"Plodder" is a stupid enough word at the best of times. No, Dakin wasn't that good but as I say, there were many worse bowlers around at his time and it seems rather unfair that you should single him out when you could have done others. He was easily good enough to be playing first-team cricket, if not standing out.
 

jot1

State Vice-Captain
Did you know Rice had brain surgery? He had a tumor growing in his brain. He was also a very competitive saloon car race driver.:)
We Saffies regard him as nearly our all-time top all-rounder. He was also a Captain of Hansie Cronje's caliber.
 

Swervy

International Captain
So? Those 2 games weren't all his career, and most of the rest of his career aside from those 2 was wholly poor..
right....and?


"Plodder" is a stupid enough word at the best of times..
I think its a great word to describe exactly that type of player

No, Dakin wasn't that good but as I say, there were many worse bowlers around at his time and it seems rather unfair that you should single him out when you could have done others. He was easily good enough to be playing first-team cricket, if not standing out.

Plodder...like the rest of them
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
right....and?
And, as I said, therefore to judge his career on those two games is poor form. There was far more to it than that and he had nothing like the bowling ability of Dakin, who had a decent long-term career, rather than a few seasons of utter mediocrity.
I think its a great word to describe exactly that type of player
I think it's a terrible word, it's one of the most patronising pieces of rubbish you could ever wish to hear, and sounds especially bad when coming from someone who can't even touch the ability of bowlers they're patronising.
Plodder...like the rest of them
What does it even mean, anyway? It's the most uselessly vague term, aside from being patronising.
 

Swervy

International Captain
And, as I said, therefore to judge his career on those two games is poor form. There was far more to it than that and he had nothing like the bowling ability of Dakin, who had a decent long-term career, rather than a few seasons of utter mediocrity.

I think it's a terrible word, it's one of the most patronising pieces of rubbish you could ever wish to hear, and sounds especially bad when coming from someone who can't even touch the ability of bowlers they're patronising..
oh right, so I cannot say someone is no good as a player because I am no good!!!

Remember that when you are giving Harmison or Hayden a bit of a kicking
What does it even mean, anyway? It's the most uselessly vague term, aside from being patronising.
If you think it is patronising then you must be fully aware of what it means, otherwise you wouldnt have defined it as patronsing
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
oh right, so I cannot say someone is no good as a player because I am no good!!!

Remember that when you are giving Harmison or Hayden a bit of a kicking
I've never patronised either by using stupid terms, though. That's the point I'm making. Calling someone a "plodder" is worse, far worse, than saying they're a flat-track bully or a weak-team bully.
If you think it is patronising then you must be fully aware of what it means, otherwise you wouldnt have defined it as patronsing
It doesn't really mean much to me other than being obviously derogatory.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
Did you know Rice had brain surgery? He had a tumor growing in his brain. He was also a very competitive saloon car race driver.:)
We Saffies regard him as nearly our all-time top all-rounder. He was also a Captain of Hansie Cronje's caliber.
That's interesting - I've always wondered how highly he was rated in his homeland, compared to say Faulkner or Procter. It's a shame that in Procter and Rice we had arguably two of the finest all rounders of all time, and yet between them they played a combined total of just 7 Tests.
 

jot1

State Vice-Captain
That's interesting - I've always wondered how highly he was rated in his homeland, compared to say Faulkner or Proctor. It's a shame that in Proctor and Rice we had arguably two of the finest all rounders of all time, and yet between them they played a combined total of just 7 Tests.
Blame apartheid for that.
I'm not saying he was better than Proctor. I know, to the older folks, Proctor was a God. The next generation likes Rice more. I can just go on what people say when cricket is discussed.
Rice was also very popular among the ladies as he was bold enough to pose nude (with just his bat covering the jewels) in one of our popular magazines. :)
 

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