• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

CLASSIC Opinion Pieces, Classic Players.

watson

Banned
Please feel free to post any newspaper articles or opinion pieces about great players or great Test matches. If they are about Pre-War players and matches then so much the better as there is an enormous amount of video footage from the late 1940s onwards, but not so much prior to that. If we want to know how Trueman bowled or Hutton batted then there is several metres of film that we can look at. But if we want to understand how Spofforth or Barnes bowled, or how Trumper batted then we have to rely on eye-witness accounts and descriptions.

I'll get the ball rolling by posting two newspaper articles about Fred Spofforth. What is reasonably clear from these two articles, and others like them, is that for the first 40 to 50 years of Test cricket there were only two main contenders for the title of best and greatest bowler of all time - Fred Spofforth and Sydney Barnes.

Obviously other bowlers like George Lohmann, Charlie Turner and Tom Richardson were mentioned and hotly debated, but for the most part they tended to remain on the side-line. It was not until the late 1930s when Bill O'Reilly had completed nearly all of his career that the usual orthodoxy was upset.


Note: Spofforth's FC career went from 1874 to 1888.
 
Last edited:

watson

Banned
Even allowing for the woeful pitches of the 1880s we'd still have to admit that 1241 wickets at just under 9 runs each during an 8 year period is pretty impressive.

FREDERICK ROBERT SPOFFORTH - "THE DEMON BOWLER"

9 June 1888

In all branches of sport it has occurred that certain individuals have been destined to stand out in prominence amongst their fellows and by their exceptional prowess achieve reputations completely overshadowing their contemporaries in the particular sport or pastime upon which their energies and abilities hava been concentrated. So pronounced indeed has been this comparative individual euperority in certain notable instances, especially during the last quarter of a century, that champions may bs pointed to who by common assent have bad no rivals in the past and whose equals are no moro likely to be discovered in the immediate future than Is tho world to produoe another Shakespeare.

Prominent amongst these exceptional celebrities in sport are W. G. Grace THE cricketer oi all time, John Roberts who even in these days of mammoth breaks stands unrivalled as an exponent of the most skilful of all indoor games, William Beach who has thrice defeated a champion who previously reigned alone, the late ill fated Matthew Webb who showed his admiring fellow countrymen a novel method by which an athlete and determined Englishman could reach the French coast unaided by modern appliance of any sort. Hutchens the famous sprinter with whom in his best day none could be found to make a match, the mighty Tom Sayers the pride of athletics Britain, and pre-eminently poor Fred Archer the non-pareil of the saddle whose head and hands earned him a larger income than that of the Lord Chancellor with an amount of public adulation and popularity thrown in that might have been envied by royalty itself.

It can hardly be considered a stretch of justice to add the name of the "demon bowler" to this list of notables, for though probably at the present time, Charley Turner, the deserving idol of the hour would be declared by a plebiscite of Australians to stand unrivalled amongst bowlers of the past or present. It must be remembered that "Spoff" has maintained his great reputation for over 13 years, and that it is 10 years since he and brave old Harry Boyle electrified England by a performance at Lord's which in a match of similar importance has never been approached in any part of the world, and of which more anon.

It is not oustomary tor the history of a celebrity to be presented to newspaper readers during tbe temporary absence ot that personage from public prominence, but tne departure of Mr. Spofforth by the Orizaba for England, where it is his intention to settle permanently, is an event of such importance in connection with Australian cricket that the fitting opportunity is taken to present readers of The Leader with a brief review of his career.

Frederick Robert Spofforth was born in Balmain, near Sydney, New South Wales, on 9th September, 1855, and is therefore in his thirty-third year. His father, who first visited Australia in 1829 with Captain (afterwards Sir James) Stirling, the coloniser of Swan River, Western Australia, after returning to England visited New Zealand with Captain (now Sir George) Grey, and there married a daughter of Captain O'Donnell. This lady was a connection of Lord Lyttelton's family, and therefore tho subject of this sketch may be said to have come from a cricketing stock.

Fred Spofforth was educated at Eglinton College, Glebe Point, Sydney, where ha first learnt his crickot, and in 1870-71 was a useful member of. the Newtown Cricket club, winning trophies both for batting and bowling. In the season 1871-72 he joined the Albert Club, then the strongest cricket organisation in New South Wales, and up to the time of his becoming associated with the first Australian Eleven at the close of 1877 won the bowling trophy each season in succession. His first appearance tor the colony of New South Wales against Victoria was made in tho seventeenth intercolonial match, played at Melbourne in December 1874. The match, which resulted in the victory of New South Wales by 7 wickets, was also remarkable tor introducing Horan and Blackbam to intercolonial honors, and each of the three debutants acquitted himself in a manner which gave hopeful promise of the future excellence displayed by each and all of the since famous trio.

Spofforth in his only innings made 21 before being bowled by old Sam Cosstick, and in each innings captured 3 Victorian wickets. Horan scored 3 and 22, and Blackham, in addition to making 32 and 5, caught 3 and stumped 1 of the 13 New South Wales wickets which fell. J. Slight also made his first appearance tor the colony in this match, but only scored 0 aud 7 not out.

Since that time The Demon has frequently dons good service tor his native colony, but it was as a representative Australian crioketer in England that he performed his most remarkable feats, and fairly earned his now familiar soubriquet. Spofforth has been a member of every Australian eleven except the present one, and it has strangely and unexpectedly transpired that the team now in England will before their tour is more than half over also probably have the benefit of his services as he will reach England about the middle of July.

On his first appearance in the old country with Conway's eleven in 1870 he bowled against Nottinghamshire 112 balls for 39 runs and a wicket The weather was cold and raw, and the Australians who had only been in Eugland a week were badly beaten by the Lace County in one innings. It would be impossible here to follow the celebrated bowler'a performances in England from that time until the close of 1886, but the remarkable and historical incidents of the next match demand more than a passing glance for the oldest cricket readers never tire of hearing the story retold.

It was less than a week after the defeat at Trent Bridge that the pioneer Australian team ventured into tho field at historic Lord's to oppose the full force of the famous Marylebone Club and ground. The British public though perhaps sympathising with these adventurous strangers from a terra incograta beyond the seas whose vaulting ambition had so disastrously o'er leaped itself, were half amused at their temerity, and the mighty W. G. smote the first ball of the match (delivered by Allan) for 4. It was recorded by an eye witness that " a laugh was elioited all round the ground." The champion, however, was caught off the next ball, and Boyle bowling Booth for 0, two wicketshad fallen tor 25 runs.

When the happiest inspiration that ever took possession of that prince of skippers, Dave Gregory brought about a result which electrified England and made Australian cricket famous in a single day. Spofforth (to uso a well worn phrase) "relieved " Allan, and the remainder of this remarkable innings will bear describing in detail. The tall slim youth, who at that time looked as though the keen east wind would cut him in half, clean bowled Hornby after 2 runs had been added, and A. J. Vebbe, then captain of Oxford University, met a similar fate after scoring 1. Ridley was caught off Boyle and Wild was bowled by him, but little did the spectators (as they gazed at the ominous record of 6 wickets for 31) dream of the wonders that were to immediately follow.

It was the next over that caused Spofforth to be dubbed "The Demon." The first ball bowled George Hearne, off the second Shaw was stumped by Murdoch, and the third brought a similar fate to Vernon. Poor Fred Morley, then in the prime of life, had just time to make 1 when his partner Flowers was caught and bowled by the Sydney boy and the innings closed for 33. Five wickets had fallen for 3 runs, and one of them was a leg-bye.

Spofforth had bowled 23 balls for 6 wickets and 4 runs. After the Australians had topped their opponents score by only 8 runs, M.C.C. and ground started their second innings which was even more sensational than tha first. To make a short story shorter, it was finished in 69 balls, Spofforth getting 4 wickets for 16 runs and Boyle six for 3.

It need hardly be said that the wicket was essentially a bowler's, but even so, considering the importance of the contest, it remains to this day the most remarkable match on record, 31 wickets falling, and the whole thing being over in four hours and a half actual play. From that memorable day Spofforth has been recognised in England as the most dangerous bowler living, and though on certain wickets Peate, Palmer, Giffen, Emmett, Turner, Ferris and others might bowl as diflioult a ball, there has never been a bowler in either hemisphere who, when it came to a case of forcing wickets by demoniacal irresistibility, could hold a candle to "The Demon."

Other bowlers might keep down runs by maintaining a good length, and wait patiently the wickets to come through the batsmen's mistakes, but "Spoff's" attack was of an avalanche character sweeping all before it. His deadly "wind jammer" especially striking terror to batsmen, whilst no man except Palmer could bowl a yorker like him. The nearest approach to Spofforth in this "forcible" character of his bowling is in the writer's opinion, George Lohman.

Perhaps the very beat season's performance ever achieved by a bowler was accomplished by "The Demon " during the English tour of 1884. All through that season the weather was as fine as an Australian summer, and hardly a sticky wicket was met with. The Australians played 32 matches, all first class, including three against All England, two each against tbe Gentlemen and the Players, one each against Oxford and Cambridge universities, two each against the North and the South, several combined elevens, I. Zingari, and the leading counties.

In one innings against an eleven of England, at Birmingham, Spofforth bowled 35 balls, 6 maidens, 3 runs and 7 wickets, and in the whole tour had the splendid record of 1544 overs, 649 maidens, 2642 runs, and 216 wickets, at an average cost of 12.2. He and other bowlers have had better records on paper, but those who experienced the continuously fine days of that glorious summer, and know the calibre of the opposing batsmen, must allow that if was the bowling performance par excellence. In three out of Spofforth's five trips to England he has met with severe injuries which have for a time incapacitated and thrown him out of practice, but in case he has "come again" with the determination which is one of the greatest secrets of his marvellous success, for a better "worker" never trod turf.

At one time "Spoff" used to be accused of purposely making a foot mark on the pitch in delivery, and then utilising it tor his own benefit by changing ends, but the accusation was ungenerous. Chew up the ground with his long stride he certainly did, but as he rarely used more thin two spikes in each boot it is evident that "the demon" entered tho field with no sinister design upon the pitch. With the first Australian Eleven he bowled in England 6620 balls, 644 maidens, 2675 runs, and took 357 wickets which averaged 7.493 runs each. This was the result of 41 matches, 22 of which were against odds, but since 1880 no handicap matches have been played by Australian Elevens. In all matches played in Engiand, his remarkable record is : —


1878
Overs = 1705
Maidens = 644
Runs = 2675
Wickets = 357
Average = 7.493

1880
Overs = 1550
Maidens = 669
Runs = 2018
Wickets = 391
Average = 5.161

1882
Overs = 1592
Maidens = 709
Runs = 2212
Wickets = 188
Average = 12.1

1884
Overs = 1544
Maidens = 649
Runs = 2642
Wickets = 216
Average = 12.2

1886
Overs = 925
Maidens = 372
Runs = 1628
Wickets = 89
Average = 17.1

TOTALS
Overs = 7325
Maidens = 3034
Runs = 11145
Wickets = 1241
Average = 8.98



He has delivered over 29,000 balls in England, and has, therefore, at a moderate computation run more than 330 miles in the act of delivering the ball and returning to bowl the next. Spofforth's celebrity as an athlete has not been gained solely on the cricket field, as he was for many years considered tha fastest sprint runner in New South Wales, and holds numerous trophies won (principally from scratch) at meetings of the Sydney Amateur Athletic Club.

In 1885 the famous bowler joined the service of the National Bank of Australasia, and while in England in the following year he married a daughter of Mr. Joseph Cadman of The Cedars, Breadsall, Derbyshire. Since his return he has held the position of manager of the National Bank at East Collingwood, which position he resigned last week to take up his permanent abode in England. For tho information oi those who care to know, it may be added that Spofforth's height is 6 ft. 2 1/2 in. and his weight 12 st.4 lb.

Although since his last trip to England he has played cricket only in a desultory sort of way, he has on several occasions done good service for the Melbourne Cricket Club, and being always in condition it is by no meant improbable that before the tour of the sixth Australian Eleven is completed English batsmen may again feel the power of that deft right arm which has so often borne a prominent part in gaining an Australian victory.

Being of a genial and communicative disposition, and possessing like most much -travelled men a comprehensive knowledge of the world, there are few whose conversation and reminiscences are more interesting than those of the Demon Bowler, to whom on behalf of the cricketers of Australia, we heartily wish God speed.

Posterity will probably recognise Spofforth, Murdoch and Blackham in their respective departments of the game as the three greatest players that Australia has produced; but in the historical reoords of those stirring contests between English and Australian players, which even in the birthplace of cricket have led to new developments and increased skill, the wondrous deeds done by The Demon Bowler will place his name in a more prominent position then that of any other player except perhaps W. G. Grace, The Grand Old Man of the cricket field. The peerless crioketer who never had a rival.

09 Jun 1888 - FREDERICK ROBERT SPOFFORTH "THE DEMON BOWLER. - Trove
 
Last edited:

watson

Banned
.
13 September 1928

CRICKET

WORLD'S BEST BOWLER

J. W. TRUMBLE SAYS SPOFFORTH



J. W. Trumble writes in the London 'Times' as follows:-

For some time past I have been hoping that some other Australian cricketer who had, before my time been on tour with Spofforth when he was at his best, and who had also seen the prominent bowlers of more recent times, would, publicly uphold his right to be considered the world's greatest bowler. This title has recently been claimed for Barnes. As the challenge has not otherwise been taken up I feel compelled to suggest reasons why Spofforth should be rated second to none.

I played with him and against him in Australia and toured England with in him in 1888, and as I happened to be an all-round player and slip fields-man, my opportunities of studying his bowling were exceptional. Spofforth struck me as being a very remarkable man possesed of rare mental ability and of other assisting personal qualities which enabled him to bring to a successful conclusion almost anything he took in hand. He started as a fast bowler and then studied medium-pace and slow-bowling, his objective being a completely disguised combination of the three paces, and those who saw him bowling at his best will remember to what perfection he attained in this direction.

His action on delivery was exactly tho same for all of the three paces, and it was in his magnificent concealment of change in the pace of his bowling that he stood out from all other bowlers of his time.

Strenuous Practice

Spofforth had a different grip of the ball for each pace of the three paces he bowled, and it must have necessitated for him very strenuous practice to secure accuracy with the grip he had for his very slow ball. But he could do many remarkable things with his hands, even to throwing a new laid egg a distance of 50 yards or so on turf and causing it to fall without breaking. Nobody ever fooled good batsmen with the slow ball
so completely as did Spofforth.

I member an exciting match between England and Australia at Sydney in 1888 which Spofforth won by the successful use of this very ball. Flowers and Maurice Read were well set. Spofforth had bowled Read a fast one outside tho off stump which was left alone. The slow ball then came along in action, delivery, and flight apparently a reproduction of its predecessor. Read played forward to it and completed his stroke before the ball had arrived. He then tried to pull his bat back to cover his wicket, but was too late to prevent the ball getting through to the stumps. I look upon this as the cleverest ball I ever saw bowled, and I am sure Maurice Read will well remember it. We won by six runs, and just before the dissolution of this partnership the match Iooked any odds on England.

In our 1888 tour we had a strong bowling side including Spofforth, Palmer, Giffen, Garrett, and others, but before very long Spofforth impressed me as being in a class by himself. That apparently was W. G. Graces's view for he said that however well set he might be, and however good the wicket, he never felt sure that "Spoff' would not bowl him out next ball.

His Greatest Performance


Probably Spofforth's greatest performance.was his 14 wickets for 90 runs in that historic Test match at the Oval in 1882 which Australia won by 7 runs. It may be remembered that England on going in a second time had to get only 85 runs in order to win. With three wickets down tho score stood at 51, and the batsmen un-disposed of to make the remaining 34 runs were Grace, Lucas, Lyttleton, Studd, Steel, Read (M.), Barnes (W.), and Peate. When Grace was out two runs later the Australians felt that they had a chance. It was then that Spofforth was seen at his best. The scene has often been described: Spofforth all out tearing along like the "Demon"' he looked , Boyle the most daring of fieldsmen close up in front at mid on; Blackham in keen expectancy behind tho stumps, with the field crowding in and keyed up. What an ordeal, almost terrifying in character for the later batsmen to face as wickets kept falling! Then we come to the closing scene, with Peate (about the worst bat of his time) lashing out at Boyle with fatal results and declaring subsequently in justification of his action that be could not trust Mr. Studd. In this innings Spofforth took seven wickets, for 44 runs.

As a student in tho art of bowling Spofforth stood out from all other bowlers and would, in my opinion, have been able to cope with the difiiculties of present-day concrete conditioned wickets better than any other bowler, and still be the best of them all.

In conclusion, let me confess that being accustomed in my profession to citing authorities I deemed it to be of some value to obtain a backing of my opinion as to Spofforth's superiority over all other bowlers, and I accordingly had a conference before recently leaving Australia with Garrett, Blackham, and my brother Hugh Trumble, and I am able to say that they are in complete accord with me.

I was particularly desirous of securing my brother's opinion, for besides knowing Spofforth's s bowling he had experience in the field of all the other great bowlers who might be taken into account.

As regards placing a bowler next to Spofforth we were in a difficulty, for in our view three or four of them come close together. We are inclined to give preference to Barnes for second place. Finally, if I may digress, let me add that we hold that in batting Grace stands first, with Trumper next to him.

13 Sep 1928 - CRICKET - Trove
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Barnes and Spofforth were both highly effective bowlers well past when you would have expected their standards to slip - Barnes was an extreme case, as he carried on for years and years but then he earned a living from the game - Spofforth on the other hand was a businessman and couldn't play as much as he might have liked, or practiced, but well into his forties he was paying less than 10 runs each for his wickets playing mainly for Hampstead, a very strong club side - when discussing true greatness, batting or bowling, I think longevity is important, thus while I've always thought Waqar Younis must have been the most difficult bowler to face there has ever been, he was at his most effective for too short a time to be considered a true great
 

watson

Banned
Just out of interest Fred, who do you consider to be the greatest Pre-WWII bowler? Would you tag along with the wisdom of the time, or would you select someone different with the unbiased benefit of hindsight?

I know you're tempted to say Larwood, but........
 
Last edited:

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Overdue honour for Australia's peerless paceman, Charlie Turner- Gideon Haigh

THEY called him the Terror. He bowled alongside the Fiend. They were the heirs and successors to the Demon. The Victorian age might be a byword for prudery, but it was as fond as ours of sporting hyperbole.

Back then, everybody in cricket knew of the Terror, Australia's peerless opening bowler CTB Turner. Now, not so many, although at about 5pm last evening, a small group of cricket lovers, including the local mayor, gathered at the cairn that honours him at Bathurst Sports Ground, for the uttering of a few words on the event of the sesquicentenary of his birth on November 16, 1862.

The cairn itself is only 30 years old. Charlie Turner died in 1944, but his ashes remained unclaimed for 25 years at a Woollahra funeral parlour, then for a further decade in the office of sports journalist Jack Gunning at the Western Advocate.

The stone beneath which the remains are now interred dispenses with the usual religious inscription or family tribute in favour of reciting Turner's very remarkable statistics, including his staggering first-class record of 992 wickets at 14.26.

Benchmarks he set a century-and-a-quarter ago, in fact, will now never be surpassed: 106 wickets at 13.59 in a home summer, and 283 wickets at 11.68 on a subsequent tour of England, the first on which Australia won a Test at Lord's.

The first Australian to take 100 Test wickets remains the quickest to reach 50 wickets - in six Tests, one fewer than South Africa's Vernon Philander.

But frankly, for much of the past century, statistics have been the only means by which to approach the Terror - a nickname given him by an English umpire.

the Demon, Fred Spofforth, has been the subject of a fine biography by Richard Cashman; the Fiend, John Ferris, is being pursued by the admirable Max Bonnell. Turner has remained a blurry figure - until now. One of those at Turner's Bathurst cairn last night was Ric Sissons, author of a forthcoming biography.

We owe the Terror, in a way, to Barry O'Farrell. Sissons, a graphic designer in addition to being the author of several excellent cricket books, revived the dormant project when his employer's work for NSW Labor was somewhat curtailed by electoral defeat last year.

The result is probably as much information about Turner as remains accessible, which, though not as much as one would wish for, is perhaps more than one might expect.

Turner, we discover, led the proverbial unfortunate life. He was predeceased by two wives: the first died while delivering a stillborn son; the second bore him a daughter from whom he was later estranged, and whose son perished while flying for the RAAF.

His third wife, 20 years his junior and a participant in Australia's first beauty pageant, had been widowed in a drowning accident.

Turner's work history was likewise chequered. When he threw in a job with Cobb & Co in his native Bathurst to pursue cricket in Sydney, Turner joined the Australian Joint Stock Bank, where Ferris also worked: no financial institution in history can have boasted such a formidable attack.

But the AJSB was one of a host of lending institutions prostrated by the collapse of the land boom, which had additional impact on Turner because it was the financier of Australia's 1893 tour of England.

For the first time, Sissons has revealed how the AJSB's financial straits contributed to the misadventures of perhaps the most disunited team Australia has ever sent abroad. As their manager summarised: "One man was nearly always beastly drunk; another was a manageable beast when drunk; a third was an unmanageable beast when drunk; a fourth man an unmanageable beast, drunk or sober."

Turner was unlucky in business. There is evidence his career was curtailed by a reluctance to tour England again, for fear of encountering importunate creditors of his cricket gear business.

His later ventures, from sharebroking and importing to editing Australia's first cricket magazine and being one of our earliest cricket radio broadcasters, yielded him little. The once-great athlete fallen on hard times is no modern development.

But how great he was. Turner and Ferris, who took 61 wickets at 12.7 in his nine Tests, created the template for marauding bowling combinations to come: Gregory and McDonald, Grimmett and O'Reilly, Lindwall and Miller, Lillee and Thomson, Warne and McGrath. Like them, they were bowlers of contrasting and complementary methods.

Turner would now, I suspect, be described as a purveyor of cutters at around medium-pace, with accuracy his cardinal virtue. His standard practice in youth was five weekly 90-minute sessions at a single stump, in which he was unhappy if he could not hit five times in six.

Modern sports scientists would probably have told Turner he was taking insufficient ice baths, but the regime made him the bowler he was: attacking the stumps like a remorseless siege engine, he bowled 42 per cent of his Test victims.

Where Turner's specialty was a waspish backbreak, Ferris bowled left-arm over, frequently spinning the ball from outside leg stump past the off. Both, then, were ideally suited to bowling on uncovered wickets, where the object of the exercise was to compel as many strokes as possible, and every match was played to a conclusion.

There may never have been a more remarkable concurrence of matches in history than in January 1887 at the SCG.

The intercolonial match between NSW and Victoria at the SCG lasted only six hours, Turner taking 8-49, Ferris 9-45, but was so badly affected by rain that these were spread over six days, and actually lasted into the morning of a scheduled Test match.

Having finished off Victoria for NSW in the morning, Turner and Ferris went out in the afternoon for Australia and bowled the visiting Englishmen out for what remains their lowest total, 45, taking 6-15 and 4-27 respectively.

Alas, the old club cricket nostrum "they've got to bat on it as well" has seldom been truer: Australia still lost by 13 runs. The Terror's other quirky distinction is that he may very well be the first bowler whose speed was scientifically measured.

It was the era of aacÉtienne-Jules Marey and Eadweard Muybridge, transfixed by motion and velocity, and equipped with the first array of scientific instruments capable of capturing and analysing them.

At the end of the 1888 Australian tour of England, the Terror was invited to Woolwich Arsenal to be evaluated by a Boulenge Chronograph, a tool for measuring the speeds of bullets named for its Belgian army officer inventor.

The chronograph, which now resembles a steampunk time machine, clocked Turner at 90km/h - hardly terroristic to modern eyes, although that was not really the point. Charlie Turner was perhaps not so much terrifying as terrorfying, exemplifying the masochistic pleasure that cricket's votaries take in experiencing trepidation at great skill. Long ago he might have been, but the mythos around Charlie Turner is abiding.
Nocookies | The Australian
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Just out of interest Fred, who do you consider to be the greatest Pre-WWII bowler? Would you tag along with the wisdom of the time, or would you select someone different with the unbiased benefit of hindsight?

I know you're tempted to say Larwood, but........
You know me too well!

...... but Lol apart it's difficult to look beyond Barnes with an honourable mention to Clarrie Grimmett
 

watson

Banned
Gideon Hague is such a good writer and has painted Turner as both a tragic figure and a great bowler.

I must admit that 90 kph sounds rather slow, and would put him in the Shane Warne speed category. I think that it's more likely that both he and Ferris bowled more like Derek Underwood. Underwood was swift for a 'slow' bowler and deadly on wet wickets when the ball skidded through. Like Turner, Underwood 'cut' the ball rather than spun it, and created just enough movement to beat the bat.

It is interesting to contrast Turner with his near contemporary, Spofforth. Where Turner would have relied upon grinding accuracy and 'waspish breakback' to claim his wickets, Spofforth seemed to deceive batsman into error by varying his pace but not his action.

Turner, we discover, led the proverbial unfortunate life. He was predeceased by two wives: the first died while delivering a stillborn son
Turner's work history was likewise chequered. When he threw in a job with Cobb & Co in his native Bathurst to pursue cricket in Sydney, Turner joined the Australian Joint Stock Bank, where Ferris also worked: no financial institution in history can have boasted such a formidable attack.
Turner would now, I suspect, be described as a purveyor of cutters at around medium-pace, with accuracy his cardinal virtue. His standard practice in youth was five weekly 90-minute sessions at a single stump, in which he was unhappy if he could not hit five times in six.
Where Turner's specialty was a waspish backbreak, Ferris bowled left-arm over, frequently spinning the ball from outside leg stump past the off. Both, then, were ideally suited to bowling on uncovered wickets, where the object of the exercise was to compel as many strokes as possible, and every match was played to a conclusion.
The chronograph, which now resembles a steampunk time machine, clocked Turner at 90km/h - hardly terroristic to modern eyes, although that was not really the point. Charlie Turner was perhaps not so much terrifying as terrorfying, exemplifying the masochistic pleasure that cricket's votaries take in experiencing trepidation at great skill. Long ago he might have been, but the mythos around Charlie Turner is abiding.
 
Last edited:

the big bambino

International Captain
The comparison with Underwood is very good. Deadly had an exceptional average on sticky wickets and that gives you an insight for the success of the 19th century bowlers who played almost exclusively under those conditions.

I'm not surprised by the 90k reading for Turner though just how seriously he took the experiment isn't known. From reading he seemed to be the typical medium pace bowler of cutters so prevalent of that era though obviously of a higher standard.

Another factor favouring a comparison with Underwood is the amount of stumpings achieved in their careers. Turner and Underwood share about the same % while Ferris' is higher. This isn't a total proof as wickies tended to stand up to even the fastest bowlers of Turner's era. I'm trying to find the logic for this as runs conceded in byes could have been very costly in an era when pitch conditions made the value of every run even more important than today. Maybe bowlers thought their overall impact was increased with the keeper standing up. Maybe fast bowlers like Spofforth deliberately cut their pace to take advantage of variable pitches, thereby allowing the keeper to stand up.

Anyway I think Underwood gives the modern fan the best insight into the speed and methods of the old style medium pacers and its a great comparison.
 

watson

Banned
The comparison with Underwood is very good. Deadly had an exceptional average on sticky wickets and that gives you an insight for the success of the 19th century bowlers who played almost exclusively under those conditions.

I'm not surprised by the 90k reading for Turner though just how seriously he took the experiment isn't known. From reading he seemed to be the typical medium pace bowler of cutters so prevalent of that era though obviously of a higher standard.

Another factor favouring a comparison with Underwood is the amount of stumpings achieved in their careers. Turner and Underwood share about the same % while Ferris' is higher. This isn't a total proof as wickies tended to stand up to even the fastest bowlers of Turner's era. I'm trying to find the logic for this as runs conceded in byes could have been very costly in an era when pitch conditions made the value of every run even more important than today. Maybe bowlers thought their overall impact was increased with the keeper standing up. Maybe fast bowlers like Spofforth deliberately cut their pace to take advantage of variable pitches, thereby allowing the keeper to stand up.

Anyway I think Underwood gives the modern fan the best insight into the speed and methods of the old style medium pacers and its a great comparison.
I think that some of the confusion regarding Turner's bowling speed came about because he described himself as "fast-medium". I'm pretty sure that he didn't mean fast-medium in the Glenn McGrath sense (130 - 140 kph), but something slower.

It's also interesting to read that Turner rates Trumper higher than Bradman because of his skill "on all wickets and conditions", and because of the "higher standard" of bowling that he had to face. Clearly Turner thought that facing Barnes, Rhodes, Hirst, Jackson, Blythe, Braund, Brearley, Foster, Faulkner, and Lockwood on uncovered pitches was much more difficult than facing Tate, Larwood, White, Robins, Peebles, Constantine, and Griffith in easier conditions.


Seventy Not Out

VETERAN TEST PLAYER

Interview with Charles Turner


Major-General J. M. Antill, C .B., C. M. G., writes in Sydney Morning Herald

28 November 1932


On the 16th of this month the veteran International crickter C. T. B. Turner (called by the man in the streer "The Terror") passed his 70th milestone. On the eve of his aniversary of his natal day, in his charming home in Manly, over a glass and pipe, the old cricketer revived the tales of his memory, and gave one or two of his friends some reminiscences of aforetime battles and of the players his era - friend and foe - extending back as far as 53 years......

Asked about his first meeting with Jack Ferris, Turner went on: "It was in '86 - the first occasion for a number of years when N. S. Wales beat Victoria in Melbourne - that I became associated with Jack Ferris. For many years after we bowled in combination, he at one end, I at the other. In this match I did the "hat trick" (Palmer, Horan and J. W. Trumble).

Ferris, a left-hander, bowled a medium ball with flight and break into the slips to the right-hand batsman. I bowled a fast-medium with an off-break to a right-handed batsman. And it was through the difference in delivery, pace, spin, and break that we synchronised so well in combination......

"Well", I remarked, "you ought to be a competent judge of bowling with so large an experience, and I feel sure that people interested in the game would welcome your opinion of the bowling in Australia today, in comparison with that of your period. What do you think about it?"

Turner after thinking for a minute or so, went on: "You will appreciate that I feel some diffidence in making comparisons. But it appears to me that the bowling of today is more erratic in character than in the past; that it is also wanting combination (if you understand me), and that there is a lack of really first-class medium spin bowlers. In the coming series I fear that our attack is somewhat weak.

Asked his opinion of all the batsman that he has played with, against and seen, who of them would he place in the premier position? Turner did not hesitate.

"No doubt, Grace for England - Trumper for Australia."

"But what about Bradman?"

"Yes undoubtedly Bradman is a wonderful batsman, and a phenomenal run-getter - the greatest scoring machine cricket has known, and he seems to have developed the extraordinary versatility with brilliant unorthodoxy of which Trumper was the author and master. Trumper was at home equally on all wickets and conditions. I prefer not to compare them. But it must not be overlooked that the bowling which Trumper had to tackle was, in my judgement, of a higher standard than that which Bradman has had to face. At least, so I think.".......

Of the old time wicketkeepers Turner had no hesitation in placing Blackham first, followed by Pilling of Lancashire, while A. C. Jarvis was the equal of any of them on his day. Of the latter generation he gives the palm to Oldfield.

We then discussed the "allrounders", and after a careful review of the numbers he had played with and against and seen, he said: "This is a difficult question, but I cannot place anyone ahead of M. A. Noble in batsman, bowler, fieldsman, and captain. But we cannot forget George Giffen and Harry Trott here, and W. G. Grace and F. S. Jackson of England.

Harking back to the bowlers, Turner's pick of the fast ones are Tom Richardson of Surrey, and Ernest Jones of South Australia.

He remarked that the "googly" bowlers were not so seriously regarded in former days as now, and that the "Bosie" leg action with off-break was unknown.

As a last soliloquy, the old veteran, with a far away look in his eye remarked.......

28 Nov 1932 - Seventy, Not Out. - Trove
 
Last edited:

jimmy101

Cricketer Of The Year
Thanks for the articles Watson. I always enjoy reading about the game & players pre-WWII.

It's unbelievable to see that Spofforth averaged 5.1 with the ball in 1880! Those poms never stood a chance. Surely Spofforth would have been a champion during any era, if he were active today I could easily see him being a giant of the T20 format.

In some ways he was the equivalent of Grace. Whereas Grace had all the strokes with the bat, playing of both front & back foot (something only he did back then), Spofforth could bowl all types of bowling. It would have been a nightmare to face him during any stage of his career, whether it was the lightning pace of his youth, or the cunning trickery or his latter years with the occasional quicker ball. He would've needed literally only an over to completely destroy the batsman's confidence. 4-ball over, mind you.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Grace was never quite very effective against Spofforth. I remember SJS posted some thing on this back in the day.
 

the big bambino

International Captain
I think that some of the confusion regarding Turner's bowling speed came about because he described himself as "fast-medium". I'm pretty sure that he didn't mean fast-medium in the Glenn McGrath sense (130 - 140 kph), but something slower.
Maybe Charlie was over estimating. Most other accounts call him medium.

It's also interesting to read that Turner rates Trumper higher than Bradman because of his skill "on all wickets and conditions", and because of the "higher standard" of bowling that he had to face. Clearly Turner thought that facing Barnes, Rhodes, Hirst, Jackson, Blythe, Braund, Brearley, Foster, Faulkner, and Lockwood on uncovered pitches was much more difficult than facing Tate, Larwood, White, Robins, Peebles, Constantine, and Griffith in easier conditions.
To which I'd add Fielder, Arnold and JT Hearne. Whether they were better than Larwood Tate Allen Voce Bowes Farnes Geary Hammond White Verity Peebles Wright Laker and Bedser I'm not so certain. Though Turner would be placed to make the call. Certainly Trumper had the more variable conditions though even then they were an improvement over Turner's day.
 

jimmy101

Cricketer Of The Year
Grace was never quite very effective against Spofforth. I remember SJS posted some thing on this back in the day.
Indeed. I feel that had Spofforth been playing in the Test match of 1880, Australia would have most likely won. After all, England's victory in that match was on the shoulders of Grace's huge hundred.

In the end, England were 57/5 when they won the match. Granted, Lord Harris wouldn't have tinkered with the batting order in the fourth innings, but clearly the pitch was becoming increasingly difficult on the final day. It was a classic scenario where Spofforth most likely could have been the man to take the game by the neck & steer Australia to victory.

SCORECARD:

Only Test: England v Australia at The Oval, Sep 6-8, 1880 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
 
Last edited:

AndrewB

International Vice-Captain
Thanks for the articles Watson. I always enjoy reading about the game & players pre-WWII.

It's unbelievable to see that Spofforth averaged 5.1 with the ball in 1880! Those poms never stood a chance. Surely Spofforth would have been a champion during any era, if he were active today I could easily see him being a giant of the T20 format.
Note that this was in all matches, so "those poms" includes e.g. the Burnley and District XVIII, against whom Spofforth took 12-10 and 11-36. His first-class average was 8.40, just ahead of Alfred Shaw's 8.54 at the top of the averages for 1880.
 

jimmy101

Cricketer Of The Year
I see, I guess when the article was originally published the distinction between First Class & non-First Class matches wasn't so defined as it is now. But you're quite right, his FC ave. for 1880 was 8.4. Statistics aside, Spofforth's menace at the bowling crease was matched only by Barnes at Test level. That is, until Andre Nel appeared on the scene.
 

watson

Banned
I like this opinion piece because it discusses whether Trumper or Macartney is the greatest Australian batsman of all time, while ironically reporting on a seemingly insignificant match where a young Bradman tops scores with 86. It's interesting that even up to the late 1920s style was deemed to be just as important in determining greatness as run-getting.

Extra marks go to Trumper because bowlers from the turn of the century like Barnes and Lockwood were deemed to be superior to those of later generations.

The World XI is interesting because it contains no obvious spinners like Peel, Rhodes, Mailey, or Grimmett. I assume that 'medium' bowlers like Noble, Spofforth and Turner were deemed to be spin bowlers for all practical purposes with their off-breaks, 'swerve', and changes of pace.

In 1928 Bill Woodfull was rated as the best Australian batsman, and Bobby Peel was rated better than Rhodes because of his superior skill on Australian wickets.



The Referee, 25 APRIL 1928

'AUSTRALIA'S GREATEST.'

(By 'Not Out')


'R.G.F.' also writes from Chatswood on the matter of the best Australian batsman of the time: . Dear 'Not Out,— May I ask, 'Who Is Australia's greatest batsman

This is a question around which the warmest arguments rage. I have listened .to many of them. And in these, one batsman has not received his due— Alan Kippax. The issue generally seems to rest between Ponsford and Woodfull with Kippax getting an occasional "look-in". I would be intenuely interested to hear your opinion. I consider Kippax the finest and most polished batsman in the Southern Hemisphere, if not in the world, now Macartney has retired. Batsmanship should be measured by more than ability to get. runs. Full consideration should he given to the manner which they were compiled. Artistry, variety of stroke play, brilliance, and grace are elements of tremendous importance in determining greatness in batsman. That is why I consider Trumper to have been greater than Grace, although I must admit - I did not see Grace, but I have read much of his style and methods.

Also too, I have listened repeatedly to comparisons between Trumper and Macartney, in which the latter was placed on the same pedestal as Trumper. Surely this is wrong. Trumper was undoubtedly a greater master than "Charlie". His greater height, of course, him him an advantage over 'Little Mac' In the matter of reach, grace, and command of bowllng Still, although I consider that Macartney was quite Trumper's equal in sheer brilliance, though were other elements in tho latters batting which rendered him supreme. In their comparisons, people seem to forget that Trumper lived in an era of great bowlers. Hirst, Rhodes (at his best), Barnes, Lockwood, Foster, Blythe, Schwarz, Hordern, Cotter, Saunders, Trumble, and others— these were the men whom the Nonpareil had to compile his great scores.

All things considered, Trumper was the most peerless, the most perfect master of the batsman art who ever buckled on a pad. Of Australians, I think Macartney must be placed second, and' perhaps Duff third. Hill was a wonderful batsman, but not quite the equal to thoae others in artistry and brilliance. If I were choosing the six greatest batsmen of all lime, from ail points of view, and particularly artistry, they would be Trumper, 'Ranji.' Macartney, Spooner, Duff, and Jessop, in that order,— though Jessop was more distinguished by brilliance In hitting than delicate artistry.

From other viewpoints, with solidity and run-getting powers well to the fore, Hobbs, Grace, Sutcliffe, Fry, MacLaren, Hayward, Hill, Ponsford and Woodfull, all very great batsmen, though I am not suggesting that order.

Were I picking a world's team of all time it would be:

Trumper
Hobbs
Macartney
Hill
Grace
'Ranji'
Noble (capt)
J. M. Gregory
Blackham
Spofforth
Turner

First-Reserve, G. Giffen.

It is fearfully hard to leave out such men as W. W. Armstrong. W. R. Rhodes, S, F. Barnes, A. C. MacLaren, J. T. Tyldesley (particularly as a master bad wicket batsmin}, G. A. Faulkner, and many others. One cannot really pick a world's team, for as soon as it is chosen there is the remark, "But how oh earth can I leave out So-and-So, and So-and-So?"

In picking teams for all time from Australia and England separately, the task is easier. I would say that Kippax, though lacking the consummate genius of Victor Trumper, more closely resembles him in style and grace, and particularly in his stance at the wickets, than batsmen of either country I have seen. It is really a treat to watch Kippax operating when at his best, for there one sees beauty in batsmanship. Ponsford, though a marvellous rungetter, is almost ugly at times, and beauty counts in great batsmanship.


WOODFULL FIRST

Australia's greatest batsman among those now in first-elass cricket is, to my view, W. M. Woodfull. An immeasurably more attractive butsman than he was a few years ago, Woodfull has a much wider variety of strokes than formerly. He punishes the ball much better - uses his wrist admirably, where he once played minus snap, and places well. He watches the ball more closely than any of the contemporary stars of this season. He has not the classic style and beauty of execution of Kippax, it is true, but his experience ou the tour in England in 1926 has developed his batsmanship and given him a degree of confidence and mastery under all conditions of wicket and attack not possessed by any of the others, splendid as some of these men are.

Kippax is undoubtedly a great batsman, but he would have been still greater if he had had the cricket of the 1926 tour in England. I believe he would have been unsurpassed in neither England or Australia after such an experience. As it is, very few in tho world, and none in Australia are his equal in point of style and stance, and closer to Trumper than any other batsman. If he were to place his drives and cultivate more square off strokes, the resemblance would be perfectly striking. Nevertheless. I do not hold with those who consider Woodfull unattractive. If you watch him closely you will see that he has cultivated wrist power and the placing art to such a degree that he is quite a. different batsman from the young one who merely pushed the ball a few seasons before. And I cannot see that Ponsford is an ugly batsman. To me he is always very interesting. Style pleases us in the aesthetic sense. When allied with high-grade power his batsmanship it is perfection......


BOBBY PEEL TALKS

Bobbie Peel, the old Yorshshire and English cricketer, is about to celebrate his golden wedding. He still works at a woollen mill at Motley. Bobbie has a fund of reminiscences concerning his Australian cricketing tours, particularly when his analysis was six wickets for 67 in the second innings against Australia in the first Test of 1894-5 in Sydney. Peel speaks with derision of the modern batsmen who push the ball round to the onside instead of hitting it. with a bit of sting.

"Who was Bobby Peel?" youth asks. Well, Bobby was a sturdy little thick-set Yorkshireman. He bowled left-hand slow to medium pace, and was the best English bowler of his type on good Australian wickets I ever saw. He kept an immaculate length, studied his batsman, came back a little bit with the arm from the off after the manner of C. G. Macartney, and could howl all day tirelessly.

Peel was also a capital batsman. At one period he had a run in the Tests out here of- three successive blobs, two in the one match. In those two he was stumped in each innings by Affie Jarvis first ball off Charles Turner. It was a wicket, that helped the ball to talk a few languages at the inspiration of 'The Terror's' fingers.

Peel secured 102 wickets in Tests against Australia at an average of 16.81. To indicate the merit of this, it may be said that- the only, other English bowlers to take 100 wickets are S. F. Barnes with 106 at 21 .58, and W. R. Rhodes, 103 at 24.03. The difference between the average cost of the wickets of Peel and Rhodes accurately illustrates the difference between the calibre of their bowling on Australian wickets. Peel complied some fine innings in the Tests. Following tho three blobs in succession, he scored 73 and 15 not out in Melbourne. What Peel says about English batting these times is absolutely sound— judging by what I saw in England in 1926.....


THE BOWRAL BOY.

Don Bradman was the recipient of a presentation from his Bowra! admirers on Saturday, when he played with distinction against his home town team for the Sydney combination taken up by Mr. Dick Jones, the Interstate selector. The Mayor, Mr. Stephens in handing the young batsman a gold watch and chain said it was given by his friends to remind him that all had appreciated the splendid manner in which he had acquitted himself in first-class cricket when the opportunity was afforded him.

In the match, Bowral Thirteen scored 70, J. Harold making 41, and no one else double figures. J. M. Gregory taking five for 9, E. W. Adams four for 6, W. H. Bassett one for 22, A. Mailey one for 6, A. Fairfax two for 6 and F. Gush one for 3. The visitors made 166 - Bradman 86, G. Morgan 34, R. L. Jones 11, A. Fairfax 30, V. Y. Richardson 15, J.M. Gregory 2, E. Adams 5 and A. Mailey 1. The cricket, to some extent was upset by rain. The new oval was opened very successfully. V. Y. Richardson, the same evening caught the express for Melbourne on his way home to Adelaide.
 
Last edited:

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
V. Y. Richardson, the same evening caught the express for Melbourne on his way home to Adelaide.
Great article, this is my favourite bit of it. Incidental bit of social history right at the end. Very nice.
 

Top