chris harris was underrated

[mr_mister]

To be fair, Gup's World Cup record is pretty average. His 50+ scores are against Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, the double ton v WI, and v Sri Lanka chasing 130 last year. It ain't pretty reading around that. I don't like talking down the 237 because you've got to bat insanely well to do that, at home in a knockout game v a team that wasn't great but aren't minnows...but he's unfortunately not delivered against the best sides around those other filler knocks.

yeah fair enough. I was just surprised 3 teams had Turner as one opener and the other ones either Guptill or Astle for the second spot and one had Guptill/Astle. This implies to me Turner is considered like a lock for one of the spots by people here and therefore NZ's best ever ODI opener - which just seems really silly based on his record.

But I see you don't think he should even be in the second XI so all good we're on the same page

 

[mr_mister]

As to why Chris Harris acquired the reputation he did while ending with a career average of 29, despite that 130 in the Chepauk Quarterfinal my feeling was he was at his best forging rescue operations from no.7 or therebouts, certainly not while batting in the top 5, and the majority of these happened in a 6-year phase.

His best years and the ones in which he was almost indispensable to the side were from the start of 1997 (beginning of the Fleming/Rixon era) to the end of 2002 (India visited for a seam-and swing dominated series in which NZ preferred to stack the side with seamers who could bat to varying degrees, like Oram/Adams/Mills, and Harris stopped being a regular first XI player).
Scored 2746 in 141 matches @ 34.32 during this period, which was still very respectable for a no.7. I'd wager most of the not-outs came during this time. And, his average against Australia in this period was 64 (a lot of famous tri-series efforts in Oz there) - I think his fronting up against Aus ensured he went from cult figure to national hero.
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

Either side of that (1990-96 and 2003-04) he scored 1633 runs @23 games which obviously brings down the average quite a bit. Not saying his overall stats do him a disservice (his test record probably confirms that) or anything, but that six-year period is mainly what the Chris Harris phenomenon was all about.

and yeah this is really cool. Funnily enough that 64 average in that time span against Australia doesn't even include his 130 scored in '96. He really brought it against us. I knew he improved a lot as a batsman as time went on - in the '92 WC I'm sure he was more known for his bowling, but yeah that's cool he had such an extended run of form as a batsman

 

[The Hutt Rec]

He averaged 45 in first class cricket, which was especially high for the time. Shame he never brought that form into the test team ... I remember reading an article with him where he said he would feel like he should play a lot more defensively in tests, he looks back and wishes he played his natural game. But the dude could definitely hold a bat ... also remember several teammates saying he could hit the ball further than Chris Cairns.

Always found it weird he slipped out of the side competitively quickly after being the rock of the team for so many years. 2002 he was pulling MOTM games out all over the place in the VB Series, 2004 he dislocates a shoulder over there and is never seen again.

And PS - Glenn Turner in our all-time ODI side is laughable.

 

[Bahnz]

Always found it weird he slipped out of the side competitively quickly after being the rock of the team for so many years. 2002 he was pulling MOTM games out all over the place in the VB Series, 2004 he dislocates a shoulder over there and is never seen again.

And PS - Glenn Turner in our all-time ODI side is laughable.

I just think that ODI's outgrew him a little bit by the end. Around the early 2000's was the time that ODI run rates really started going through the roof. As a player who was always more of a nurdling accumulator, chasing anything above 7 rpo was never his strong suit, and around that time the pitches became quicker on average, making his cutters less effective.

 

[mr_mister]

This knock fairly late into his unremarkable test career could have finally been the breakthrough for Harris. Was his highest score and it came at a vital time. His dismissal also looked a tad dodgy. He followed it up with a useful 43 in the second dig to make him the leading run scorer in this particular test(on either side) and the most runs he ever got in a single test. He didn't even get to bowl but I'm sure it's the closest he ever came to getting a test MOM award as it was a low scoring victory for NZ

Unfortunately he only played 3 more before being discarded forever despite continuing to play FC cricket til 2009

what might have been!

 

[The Hutt Rec]

This knock fairly late into his unremarkable test career could have finally been the breakthrough for Harris. Was his highest score and it came at a vital time. His dismissal also looked a tad dodgy. He followed it up with a useful 43 in the second dig to make him the leading run scorer in this particular test(on either side) and the most runs he ever got in a single test. He didn't even get to bowl but I'm sure it's the closest he ever came to getting a test MOM award as it was a low scoring victory for NZ

Unfortunately he only played 3 more before being discarded forever despite continuing to play FC cricket til 2009

what might have been!

Yeah it was a shame that didn't kick him onto greater things ... was definitely a crucial innings in terms of the match, (and also the innings spanned three days due to weather) ... held it together while the innings crumbled around him.

But although his dismissal was unlucky, he was out and not given much earlier in his knock (40s maybe?) so was also very lucky to get that far.

 

[ankitj]

Who's next? My bet is on Zaheer abbas

He seems to have a fairly even record against all oppositions.

Zaheer Abbas	Mat	Inns	Runs	HS	Ave	SR	100	50
v Australia	11	11	411	109	41.10	86.52	2	1
v Canada	1	1	36	36	36.00	70.58	0	0
v England	8	8	299	83*	59.80	81.69	0	4
v India	13	12	612	118	51.00	97.14	3	1
v New Zealand	9	9	341	103*	42.62	81.97	1	2
v Sri Lanka	10	9	473	123	52.55	98.74	1	3
v West Indies	10	10	400	95*	44.44	64.93	0	2

 

[mr_mister]

yeah can't really fault Abbas at all, if anything I'd say he's underrated. His average/strike-rate combo isn't that far off Viv's really and though his career of course was a third shorter in terms of games I feel he's a way better example of a player robbed of a chance to have an amazing career or whatever more than Turner

Abbas had 7 tons upon retirement in 1985 which I'm assuming was the then-record, or at least it was in '83 when he apparently got his 7th. Haynes and Viv may have surpassed him by 85 though

 

[trundler]

In 10 more innings Viv had 2 fewer hundreds at an almost equal strike rate albeit higher average.

Zaheer Abbas was the Clem Hill to Viv's Trumper.

 

[mr_mister]

In 10 more innings Viv had 2 fewer hundreds at an almost equal strike rate albeit higher average.

Zaheer Abbas was the Clem Hill to Viv's Trumper.

At the time of Abbas' last match?

 

[trundler]

At the time of Abbas' last match?

No, at the end of 1983. So Zaheer was arguably the leading ODI batsman of the early 80s. The late 80s had Jones so Viv was only #1 for the middle period. Myth debunked.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Moderate upgrade over Scott Styris

 

[Flem274*]

harris should have played 07 wc. the decks were perfect for it and because mills broke down our terrible pace depth was exposed (franklin was a baaad odi bowler). bond, oram, harris, styris, vettori could have trolled hard in that wc.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I would agree re Franklin but checked the scorecard vs SL in the semifinal when Jayawardene got a century.

Bond 10 overs 1 for 59
Oram 10 overs 1 for 60
Vettori 10 overs 1 for 51
Jeets!!! 10 overs 0 for 62
Styris 1 over for 8 runs
Franklin 2 for 46 off 9

Gillespie or Adams instead of Patel. Also Astle might have been useful if he'd gone to the tournament.

 

[Moss]

I would agree re Franklin but checked the scorecard vs SL in the semifinal when Jayawardene got a century.

Bond 10 overs 1 for 59
Oram 10 overs 1 for 60
Vettori 10 overs 1 for 51
Jeets!!! 10 overs 0 for 62
Styris 1 over for 8 runs
Franklin 2 for 46 off 9

Gillespie or Adams instead of Patel. Also Astle might have been useful if he'd gone to the tournament.

Patel was bowling pretty well in tandem with Vettori at the time, I think Mahela’s innings just ended up ruining everyone’s figures, it was a special knock.

Gillespie was not fully fit during the WC IIRC and got carted around in the 1-2 games he played, while Adams was never exactly a favourite of Bracewell’s. Mason and Tuffey were also in that squad apparently warming the bench. Clearly an injured Kyle Mills was just impossible to replace at the time.

Re: Harris, I remember he was on the fringes and was definitely in the probables list for both the WC and the Champions Trophy just before that, and many (myself included) were hoping for a swansong. Bracewell went on record saying he felt Vettori was already playing the Harris role so they considered him surplus.

 

[TheJediBrah]

harris should have played 07 wc. the decks were perfect for it and because mills broke down our terrible pace depth was exposed (franklin was a baaad odi bowler). bond, oram, harris, styris, vettori could have trolled hard in that wc.

If Franklin didn't play the 07 World Cup we never would have seen Michael Clarke back away and leave a ball on middle stump

 

[Teja.]

I wiki'd Chris Harris to see what he was doing after cricket as he seemed like a very wholesome dude.

Now after clicking on several more links, I now know that Chris Harris belongs to the historic Zinzan family who were some sort of British fuedal lords of the manor in Berkshire whose name goes back as old as the 11th century. ITSTL.

Wonder if ZInzan is also a relation.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I wiki'd Chris Harris to see what he was doing after cricket as he seemed like a very wholesome dude.

Now after clicking on several more links, I now know that Chris Harris belongs to the historic Zinzan family who were some sort of British fuedal lords of the manor in Berkshire whose name goes back as old as the 11th century. ITSTL.

Wonder if ZInzan is also a relation.

That explains the horrific hairline and somewhat unfortunate facial features

 

[GoodAreasShane]

That explains the horrific hairline and somewhat unfortunate facial features

Rare gold from TJB here

 

[honestbharani]

Yep... good one, TJB.