Bigger Playa: Miller vs Botham

[harsh.ag]

Discuss

 

[mr_mister]

Shane Warne

 

[Burgey]

Miller, by so far it isn't even a contest. Against anyone.

 

[h_hurricane]

On pure body weight, it has to be Beefy.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

On ability they could both have broken all records for all eternity, but generally they both had better things to do.

 

[h_hurricane]

On pure body weight, it has to be Beefy.

Jokes apart, it has to be Miller. Clearly the better bowler and better batsman. Many do the mistake of rating Beefy by his peak rather than looking at his whole career.

Some hint his great record in first 75 tests or so , ignoring the rest.

First 75 tests : Batting average 36.61
Bowling average 26.20

Awesome stats, unless you look into his last 75 tests.

Last 75 tests : Batting average 31.89
Bowling average 34.00

These cherry picked stats tell 2 different stories. What it clearly means is that he was neither as good as what his peak suggests nor as poor as his trough.
An ATG, for sure though.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Rating someone on their peak isn't a "mistake", it shows how good they were if it was for long enough.

 

[h_hurricane]

His trough is pretty long as well right ? Here are things that could be held against Beefy.

1. He was hardly 30 when his decline started. An unnaturally young age. In fact, protected his excellent overall record by playing less and less(only 11 tests in his last 5 years) when he declined.
2. A total no show against the best team of his generation.
3. A record built upon bashing mediocre(though not overly poor) teams. Averages 70 odd with the bat against a **** Indian bowling attack. In fact, his batting average drags below 30 against all other teams combined.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

In Botham’s case his early career coincided with World Series so he played against Packerlesstan and the Aussie 3rd XI. His record against the Windies is poor and he declined early. But that wasn’t really my point. It’s not a “mistake” using a peak to rate a sportsman. Otherwise Muhammad Ali was pants based on the shuffling wreck that fought Larry Holmes.

 

[TheJediBrah]

the bigger player was Beefy if we're talking about circumference, Miller if we're talking about anything else

To answer the actual question though, the bigger playa was probably also Miller. Wasn't he supposed to be ridiculously good-looking?

 

[trundler]

Left his wife for his mistress well into his 80s too

 

[Lillian Thomson]

If it’s about bedroom prowess (does that count as filter avoidance) it’s certainly Botham. Ask a string of hotel employees worldwide. Definitely quantity over quality though.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Left his wife for his mistress well into his 80s too

That's the dream

 

[Line and Length]

There is definitely no comparison. Miller, along with Dennis Compton, were the pin-up boys of post war Britain (both supposedly sponsored by Brylcreem). Miller was only at his best when the game was in the balance but was less interested in one-sided games and this was more than evident during the 1948 tour. When Australia made 721 in a day against an inexperienced Essex attack, Miller notably made a first ball duck. Jack Fingleton said he "... showed his boredom as he walked to the wickets ... He likes a fight - or nothing at all." Similarly, against Lancashire, when Jack Ikin was on 99 Bradman took the new ball and tossed it to Miller. Miller refused to bowl saying Ikin deserved his hundred. For an excellent insight into Keith Miller read R.S.Whitington's book "The Golden Nugget".
Both Miller and Botham could be match winners on their day but Miller's bowling was more varied.
I might add that Miller, along with Lindsay Hassett, were two of my boyhood heroes in the Australian teams in the late '40s and early '50s.

 

[TheJediBrah]

If it’s about bedroom prowess (does that count as filter avoidance) it’s certainly Botham. Ask a string of hotel employees worldwide. Definitely quantity over quality though.

So you're saying he was a bit of a Shane Warne-type operator

 

[trundler]

Miller has the better bowling average by some distance but both are undersold by their batting averages. Did Botham peak higher with the bat? My impression is that Miller was more inconsistent.

 

[England First]

Botham is the most overrated cricketer I’ve ever known. I’ve seen him picked in experts top 6 players of all time! I’ve seen him in peoples dream teams. He has a knighthood. And I still have no idea why. The guy was average at best. Hadlee dev khan are far better. Personally I think Flintoff and stokes are miles ahead. This is nothing personal and I’m a proud Englishman but he’s so overrated. He’s a famous for “clearing bars” when he came into bat. How pathetic

 

[stephen]

I reckon Miller and Warne would have been great to watch in challenging series. Both lifted their games when it counted.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I reckon Miller and Warne would have been great to watch in challenging series. Both lifted their games when it counted.

Miller pulls and Warne takes the ugly friend

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Miller, but Botham was still quality - still England's best player of the last 50 years.