Better ODI bowler

[Bolo.]

Yeah I'd say Bond too. But Lee with the white ball was closer than you think. That **** was unplayable at times with pace + accuracy + swing. I think people forget how good Lee was in ODIs because of how meh he was in Tests

Unplayable at times, bled runs at others. Much like Waqar. Basically Waqar lite.

 

[Bolo.]

Bond kicked the greatest odi side of all time in the head over and over again and played 82 odis - a sample size favourable with all bowlers outside the 1992-2010 odi spam era.

I'm obviously influenced by hero worshipping him as a kid but i dont think longevity really matters here like it does for him in test cricket.

He played in the spam era though, just wasnt fit enough to stay on the field. Lee played almost triple the number of games as him, despite being true express. One of the other best from his era was pollock, who did well over 4X as many IIRC. Cant really conpare these type of numbers, even if the discrepancy is not as extreme as tests. Feels like comparing Bishop to Walsh... pretty pointless.

 

[Flem274*]

Bond had a pretty long run of odi fitness. It was the tests his body couldnt handle. Longevity is only good for both team value and sample size. His sample size compares well with the undisputed bests of the 80s and today (starc is arguably the GOAT in my book) and he was always one of the most valuable bowlers in the world.

Lee being a rare always fit fast bowler makes him a unicorn, and is a solid point in his favour.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Lee was a bowler of 2 extremes in odis i think. One of the best ever with the new ball, but more liable than most atgs to melt at the death.

Correct, I've said this until my face turns blue. Lee at the death could be ****ing terrible. Even when he beat the batsman, which was often, it usually flew over the keeper or past third man to the boundary. I have nightmares about Lee v McCullum. Baz would close his eyes and swing, end up 50 off 30 balls with about 48 of those runs edges past the keeper.

Lee should have been 5-6 overs with the new ball + 1 or 2 short spells in the middle of the innings.

 

[Bolo.]

Bond had a pretty long run of odi fitness. It was the tests his body couldnt handle. Longevity is only good for both team value and sample size. His sample size compares well with the undisputed bests of the 80s and today (starc is arguably the GOAT in my book) and he was always one of the most valuable bowlers in the world.

Lee being a rare always fit fast bowler makes him a unicorn, and is a solid point in his favour.

Na, he played for only 8? years and managed to be fit enough to play not even close to 1/2 of NZs games in that time. its not an 80s case with not many games, or even a modern starc case with JAMODIS and being rested... he simply wasnt fit enough. Imagine how many more games NZ would have won if he had had a full career. It makes him very hard to compare to bowlers from his era with a bigger body of work. Its a less extreme example, but its a bit like rating Cowie up with Ambrose.

 

[subshakerz]

I didnt get the sense that Brett Lee was better than McGrath or Bracken when he played.

 

[anil1405]

I didnt get the sense that Brett Lee was better than McGrath or Bracken when he played.

Maybe it's coz of his overall reputation as a cricketer where he was somewhere between average to just about good in test cricket.

 

[Kirkut]

Waqar...early 90s Sharjah games, made ODIs look like test matches.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I didnt get the sense that Brett Lee was better than McGrath or Bracken when he played.

No one was better than McGrath, and Bracken was a way better late innings bowler

 

[subshakerz]

The question then is whether 82 matches is enough to judge a bowler. If so, then I am willing to give this to Bond.

 

[stephen]

McGrath/ Lee/ Bracken/ Hogg was about as perfect of a bowling attack as you could wish for in an ODI. All 3 of the quicks offered something different and Hogg was a fine spinner. When you have Watson/ Symonds to make up the other 10 overs you have an attack as good as any in history.

 

[_00_deathscar]

The question then is whether 82 matches is enough to judge a bowler. If so, then I am willing to give this to Bond.

It’s enough to judge a bowler for sure - but being available to actually play matters too.

On top of which there are things like decline etc

 

[CricAddict]

McGrath/ Lee/ Bracken/ Hogg was about as perfect of a bowling attack as you could wish for in an ODI. All 3 of the quicks offered something different and Hogg was a fine spinner. When you have Watson/ Symonds to make up the other 10 overs you have an attack as good as any in history.

Agreed. That's a great ODI combination.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

McGrath/ Lee/ Bracken/ Hogg was about as perfect of a bowling attack as you could wish for in an ODI. All 3 of the quicks offered something different and Hogg was a fine spinner. When you have Watson/ Symonds to make up the other 10 overs you have an attack as good as any in history.

Not to mention the likes of Ponting, Symonds, Clarke, and Hussey patrolling the inner ring, stopping singles, building pressure, and getting key run outs at vital times.

 

[TheJediBrah]

You don't go through 2 world cups undefeated by accident

 

[stephen]

You don't go through 2 world cups undefeated by accident

There were a few scares at least in 2003. 2007 though was so ridiculously one sided in not even sure a combined world XI would have put up a fight. I mean Sri Lanka had an almighty side for that world cup and they didn't even look close to challenging in the final. They were robbed of a fair chance by the light, which was a shame, but that Gilchrist innings was immense.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Not to mention the likes of Ponting, Symonds, Clarke, and Hussey patrolling the inner ring, stopping singles, building pressure, and getting key run outs at vital times.

Yea but then how will the bowlers learn how to reverse swing??? Seems a bit disadvantageous if you ask me.

 

[srbhkshk]

Yea but then how will the bowlers learn how to reverse swing??? Seems a bit disadvantageous if you ask me.

McGrath would average 15 if fielders weren't allowed while he was bowling.