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Best team since Waugh/ Ponting’s Australia?

Best team?


  • Total voters
    74

subshakerz

International Debutant
Despite this loss I would give the edge to India because of their home dominance. Smith's SA was good but they were too inconsistent at home: drawing against India and England and losing twice against Australia.
So SA drew twice at home and lost twice to Australia in 9 years when they were unbeaten away. India have now lost away four times in 6 years, including a whitewash. Isnt India's gaps in their record worse?
 

Xix2565

U19 Cricketer
You already agree with me that SA is better unless you changed your mind.
He said that with the qualifier that this Indian team is still playing and that SA team isn't, so it's unfair to judge a complete record vs an incomplete one.

So SA drew twice at home and lost twice to Australia in 9 years when they were unbeaten away. India have now lost away four times in 6 years, including a whitewash. Isnt India's gaps in their record worse?
We take home wins to be easier than away wins, and the continued harping on away records doesn't suddenly mean that the home records are invisible either. Can't have it both ways, especially when the playing conditions are so varied and different across countries and over the years.
 

Chrish

State Vice-Captain
India will miss Shastri dearly. He was a legendary coach along with kirsten IMO. He was a risk taker and didn’t mind trying out new players even when fans including myself bitched and moaned about selections but turned out wrong ie. Shardul, Sundar, Axar etc.

Dravid might be too conservative. It will be interesting when team goes through transition under him. I don’t wanna judge him just yet but Shastri’s shoes are big to fill.
 

subshakerz

International Debutant
India will miss Shastri dearly. He was a legendary coach along with kirsten IMO. He was a risk taker and didn’t mind trying out new players even when fans including myself bitched and moaned about selections but turned out wrong ie. Shardul, Sundar, Axar etc.

Dravid might be too conservative. It will be interesting when team goes through transition under him. I don’t wanna judge him just yet but Shastri’s shoes are big to fill.
Shastri would have made zero difference. If India are losing because of a coach, then that doesn't speak well of Kohli as a captain.

India have no excuses. The same side toured in 2018, so they have experience, and then come back and lose to an inferior side.
 
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subshakerz

International Debutant
We take home wins to be easier than away wins, and the continued harping on away records doesn't suddenly mean that the home records are invisible either. Can't have it both ways, especially when the playing conditions are so varied and different across countries and over the years.
There are two ways to compare SA's Smith and Kohli's India. The first is to judge the merits by comparing their actual lineups. Most here agree that man-to-man SA are simply a superior lineup.

The second way is to compare their records. I have always maintained that SA's inferior home record does downgrade them compared to India's complete domination, but India can only claim a better overall record if they fill the gaps in their away record (winning in SA and England).

As it stands, India have only won away in Sri Lanka, WI and Australia and lost four series, compared to SA who won in Pakistan, Sri Lanka, NZ, WI, Australia and England and also never lost a series. That is a fairly big gulf.

So you have one team who are much much better, but at an easier task (winning at home).

And another team who are much better, but at a much harder task (winning away from home).

Is it unreasonable to prefer SA then?
 

Chrish

State Vice-Captain
Shastri would have made zero difference. If India are losing because of a coach, then that doesn't speak well of Kohli as a captain.

India have no excuses. The same side toured in 2018, so they have experience, and then come back and lose to an inferior side.
I am not really sure who is making any excuses.. I just expressed the opinion that Shastri will be missed; nothing else.. We don’t even know how good/ bad of a coach Dravid is as it’s too early to judge.

You seem to have some personal issues regarding this topic. Every one of your post basically circles around how india couldn’t win against “this” SA side (whatever that means). Knock it off before it gets out of hand.
 

subshakerz

International Debutant
I am not really sure who is making any excuses.. I just expressed the opinion that Shastri will be missed; nothing else.. We don’t even know how good/ bad of a coach Dravid is as it’s too early to judge.

You seem to have some personal issues regarding this topic. Every one of your post basically circles around how india couldn’t win against “this” SA side (whatever that means). Knock it off before it gets out of hand.
Yeah, too early to judge Dravid. I think he will be more good than harm.

If I gave the impression that this SA was a minnow, then let me clarify. Winning in SA was never going to be a cakewalk. I am glad that SA showed so much fight and I am impressed by the caliber of the youngsters who have emerged, it was a great series. But, this was an inexperienced SA team though and India were favorites, especially after winning the first test.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I am not really sure who is making any excuses.
The only one making excuses and caveats as it pleases his bias here is saltshakerz. I think just about everyone here knows its what his game is here. He is here to put down India and Indian players. LIterally every post of his has this obvious agenda, esp. in this thread. If India beats a side, its coz that side are not good enough. If Smith's SA beat a side, they were the best ever. SA lose 2-0 in SL - its coz they are without their #1 opener and #1 allrounder in Smith and Kallis. India lost to SA 2-1 without their #1 opener and #1 allrounder, no it does not count. I dont understand why anyone would bother engaging with this obviously salty poster anymore.

As far as the topic goes, I already pointed out that SA did it for longer and that is the main reason I still have them above India. Strauss' England are lol option here given they were only around for like 3 years and got blanked in Pakistan amongst that. If India keep this up over the same 9 year period, then yes, it will be incredible. You also have to keep in mind the fact that the draw was a very real option in the CEO era pitches and it has not been so since 2016, especially when India have been touring.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
As far as this series itself goes, I think we were always expecting our bowling to carry us given we were refusing to move on from Purane. Its amazing how similar this series has been to the 2006 series where Dravid and Sachin batted like ghosts of themselves and were criticized even by the mildest of critics and regular yes-men in the media. I think whoever did bat for us did not apply themselves to the levels they did against Australia in Australia or even against England in England. Daemon pointed out the 2nd half of our 2nd innings at Jo'burg is where it all started to unravel and I agree. Our 3rd innings batting in both tests had a lot of air of "200 is enough" and they just did not want it as badly as they did in Australia. But all that said, given that the batting was expected to be weak, I think the loss of Siraj is what hit us hard. Playing with basically 10 players, and still expecting to defend 240 there at Joburg was not a great effort and somehow the old crappy 2 4s an over nostrils turned up here at Cape Town instead of the new and improved we have seen since the pandemic.

I hope Ishant can find his best form somehow as I feel he still adds a point of difference to our attack that others do not. An attack of Ishant, Bumrah, Siraj and Shardul seems ideal for most conditions in SENA. Ishant has always made a difference in swinging tracks, so I hope he is back in some sort of form for the England test. In the shorter term, it puts a lot of pressure on us for the WTC and we will need to win a lot of games. Hopefully it sees the return of the committed and disciplined sides we saw in England and Australia and not the ones who seemed to be looking to finish games in a hurry that we saw here.
 

subshakerz

International Debutant
The only one making excuses and caveats as it pleases his bias here is saltshakerz. I think just about everyone here knows its what his game is here. He is here to put down India and Indian players. LIterally every post of his has this obvious agenda, esp. in this thread. If India beats a side, its coz that side are not good enough. If Smith's SA beat a side, they were the best ever. SA lose 2-0 in SL - its coz they are without their #1 opener and #1 allrounder in Smith and Kallis. India lost to SA 2-1 without their #1 opener and #1 allrounder, no it does not count. I dont understand why anyone would bother engaging with this obviously salty poster anymore.

As far as the topic goes, I already pointed out that SA did it for longer and that is the main reason I still have them above India. Strauss' England are lol option here given they were only around for like 3 years and got blanked in Pakistan amongst that. If India keep this up over the same 9 year period, then yes, it will be incredible. You also have to keep in mind the fact that the draw was a very real option in the CEO era pitches and it has not been so since 2016, especially when India have been touring.
I'm salty? Buddy, you are the one with a jibe against me virtually every post. I just don't care enough to respond back. :P

As for me putting down India, I already said this Indian bowling lineup is the best in the world at the moment and admit India are still the no.1 test team in the world all said and done. The only point that has bothered me is how posters downplay or ignore their batting weaknesses overseas or overvalue their home record.

It's funny you see me as the one with an agenda as opposed to the posters earlier in this thread hyping India to near Aus 2000/ WI 80s level.
 

OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
The only point that has bothered me is how posters downplay or ignore their batting weaknesses overseas
Tbf if you spend enough time here you' find the this the last thing most Indian posters will do. The middle order being terrible is something Indian fans have cried out from the rooftops about for years, in fact often having to push back against other team's fans telling us we should be grateful how many proven class batsmen we have. As recently as the England tour you still had many non-Indian posters saying how Indian fans complain too much about the batting.

The home record thing is fair enough but I think that's just a difference in philosophy. I still value that a lot although the way things are going I'm pretty sure Australia will give this Indian team a real hard time in September.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
It's funny you see me as the one with an agenda as opposed to the posters earlier in this thread hyping India to near Aus 2000/ WI 80s level.
Its not funny when you realize the fact that you started this thread and posted the most in this thread. :laugh:

And read my posts again and see where I did not call them out as obvious trolls. The same as you are.
 

subshakerz

International Debutant
Tbf if you spend enough time here you' find the this the last thing most Indian posters will do. The middle order being terrible is something Indian fans have cried out from the rooftops about for years, in fact often having to push back against other team's fans telling us we should be grateful how many proven class batsmen we have. As recently as the England tour you still had many non-Indian posters saying how Indian fans complain too much about the batting.

The home record thing is fair enough but I think that's just a difference in philosophy. I still value that a lot although the way things are going I'm pretty sure Australia will give this Indian team a real hard time in September.
It will be a great series in September hopefully.
 

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