Ben Stokes - All the facts

[eempyrean]

Let's look at the facts. Especially when you consider what Pietersen was axed for. Let's also compare their performances: A Pietersen that secured England arguably their biggest ever series win in the modern era with 150+ vs Australia on Day 5 of the 5th Ashes Test in 2005. And a Pietersen that won player of the tournament, and performed in the final, of England's only world cup win in any format (2010 T20 WC). Ben Stokes on the other hand cost England a world cup win by getting smashed for 4 consecutive sixes in the final over of a world cup final. Ben Stokes currently averages less with the bat than Gary Ballance in tests.

Stats comparison (bat)

Tests (ave): Pietersen 47.28 Stokes 35.72
ODIS (ave): Pietersen 40.73 Stokes 35.10
IT20 (ave): Pietersen 37.93 Stokes 14.76

The bowling of Stokes whilst ok, is nothing special. With a test bowling average of ~34, ODIs ~38 and T20s a whopping 48.50

It is quite clear that Stokes with a batting average of 14.76 and bowling average of 48.50 (over 9 economy) shouldn't be in the England t20 side and should infact be no one near it.

I also find Stokes riles the opposition and brings the best out of the opponent. Pietersen let his bat do the talking, rather than actual aggression like Stokes. As a result I always felt the opponent feared Pietersen taking their attack apart and Pietersen was always considered the main man to get out when he played for England in any format (which took the pressure off the rest of the lineup, with the focus from everyone being almost solely on Pietersen when he batted for England). Also it should be considered Pietersen had a career riddled with injuries, surgeries and often played with injections and painkillers...that's how bad he wanted to play for England...Anyway...enough of their performance on the pitch. What's more important is Pietersen was axed with no way back, Stokes has to be axed too permanently.

1. DRUNKEN BRAWL ECB suspend Ben Stokes and Alex Hales as England vice-captain faces sack ahead of Ashes
No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

2. MOCKS DISABLED CHILD - https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/45687...n-stokes-for-mocking-her-disabled-son-harvey/

3. DRIVING OFFENCES (caught four times speeding, driving ban ) - https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12854...ould-be-sent-to-prison-over-driving-offences/
Durham cricketer Ben Stokes warned he could be sent to prison over speeding offences - Chronicle Live

4. ALREADY AT RISK OF ASHES BAN (demerit points system) - Ben Stokes risks missing Ashes Test after being handed latest demerit point for outburst against West Indies

5. POLICE OBSTRUCTION :
December 2011
Stokes spends the night in a cell after he was arrested for obstructing a police officer. Escapes with a caution and a heavy fine from his county, Durham.

6. IGNORES CURFEW
February 2013
Ignores a curfew - and previous written warnings from the ECB for 'excessive behaviour' - on tour with the Lions in Australia and goes out drinking with room-mate Matt Coles until 5.30am. The pair apologise but are sent home from the tour.

7. ANGER PROBLEMS
March 2014
Fractures his hand punching a locker in the dressing room after he was dismissed for a golden duck against the West Indies. The injury forces him to miss the Twenty20 World Cup.

8. WARNING
January 2015
Receives a verbal warning for staying out after hours following a team function in Bloemfontein, 24 hours after arriving as a one-day specialist on England Lions' tour of South Africa.

9. OUT LATE AGAIN THE DAY BEFORE A TEST
August 2017
Returns to team hotel from night out in Manchester at 3am, hours before the second day of the fourth Test against South Africa.

10. REFUSES HANDSHAKE
Watch: England's Ben Stokes refuses to shake hands with Bangladesh cricketer in tour match

11. STOKES ANGRY CONFRONTATION
Bangladesh players in an ugly spat with Jos Buttler and Ben Stokes, see video | The Indian Express

12. MARLON SAMUELS CONFRONTATIONS

13. SWEARING AT KOHLI
Taking on Virat Kohli - During the third Test of the series between India and England at Mohali, Stokes was reprimanded by the match referee and handed one demerit point for swearing at Indian cricketers after he was dismissed.

14. SEEKS THERAPY ANGER MANAGEMENT
England all-rounder Ben Stokes seeks therapy to curb his bad temper - Telegraph

15. BAD BEHAVIOUR/TANTRUM WHEN DISMISSED
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cr...-anger-umpire-dismissal-against-Pakistan.html

Please feel free to add anything else and I'll add more later if I have the time and can be bothered to add to it. ECB and Strauss are right under the microscope here. If England pick Stokes again I will never support England cricket again. I will turn to the county game.

 

[Gnske]

Great post from a promising newcomer, good to see someone has put together all the dirt on this """"clean"""" character.

 

[Starfighter]

Okay.

 

[SeamUp]

Okay then.

Anything else you feel the need to to get off your chest ?

 

[Starfighter]

He hasn't joined for this. Signed up in 2010.

 

[Gnske]

He hasn't joined for this. Signed up in 2010.

That's why it's a good post. The man has seen cricket for years and has only decided to talk about an important issue that 99% of people are wrong about.

 

[eempyrean]

Okay then.

Anything else you feel the need to to get off your chest ?

Good job editing your post. I signed up years ago and have been watching England play forever. I've been to loads of test matches, ODIs and T20s. Is it common for you to be aggressive to new members (which I'm not). Do you have an anger problem like Ben Stokes? Are you afraid to stick by your original words, so had to edit?

 

[eempyrean]

That's why it's a good post. The man has seen cricket for years and has only decided to talk about an important issue that 99% of people are wrong about.

Pretty much. I post a lot on other cricket sites and youtube, but usually there is a character limit. I also thought there might be more die hard fans on here.

 

[SeamUp]

Good job editing your post. I signed up years ago and have been watching England play forever. I've been to loads of test matches, ODIs and T20s.

Could have left it. Because it more or less stands.

Stokes has issues but I don't like character assasination too much. I highlighted 1 or 2 things on County thread but also think perspective and the other side is needed. Think Mike Selvey did an article on it. You should read it.

He clearly needs help to deal with his issues and misdemeanours.

But I would hate to see his talent disappear from the top table.

KP was a situation growing between team mates and people he worked for. It was coming. Not that I was on a particular side.

 

[eempyrean]

Could have left it. Because it more or less stands.

Stokes has issues but I don't character assasination too much.

He clearly needs help to deal with his issues and misdemeanours.

But I would hate to see his talent disappear from the top table.

This for me is all about consistency. They completely scapegoated Pietersen and to this day I believe his axing was nonsense considering all the facts. If they axed Pietersen (ECB and Strauss) then picking Stokes ever again would be extremely contradictory and inconsistent.

 

[eempyrean]

.

KP was a situation growing between team mates and people he worked for. It was coming. Not that I was on a particular side.

Hales, Broad and a friend of Hales were together the day Hales's friend set up the KP Genius account to mock Pietersen. Alec Stewart was told Bresnan was also involved. It's not a coincidence Stewart was always critical of Pietersen, yet did a complete U-Turn on Pietersen when he found it out. Stewart even commented how he was surprised at how genuine Pietersen was when he turned up to play for Surrey, helping out some kids on his own time.

On that Ashes tour Swann quit half way through the tour. The bowlers (particularly Broad, Swann and Anderson) for some time had been verbally abusing any fielder that misfielded. Trott used to get shoved at fine leg and spend entire days play doing fine leg to fine leg. That makes you feel isolated from the side. Then he'd have the bowlers verbally abusing him in front of millions of viewers if he wasn't fielding like Rhodes in his prime. He was batting the pressure position at 3. England exposed Trott's mental breakdown. Pietersen wanted it kept quiet. Pietersen wanted ECB to say that Trott needed a break, or make up an excuse that wasn't going to effect Trott mentally long time.

Prior supposedly was up himself completely. Smashed a window in the Lord's dressing room amongst other things, and used to walk about calling himself the big cheese. There's a lot more stuff, but I don't want to write an essay about it. Pietersen certainly wasn't an angel, but nor was anyone else. And he did less wrong than half the side, whilst performing better than them on the actual field.

I could go on forever. It's obvious Pietersen was scapegoated. The players were extremely bitter and jealous at Pietersen's success from the IPL. They couldn't handle the fact that Pietersen was the only top t20 player they had. The IPL teams had no interest in the England players at the time and the England players were too scared to put their neck on the line (risking no one bidding for them). The jealousy about Pietersen's money earned in the IPL was a clear reason for me why many didn't like him. Along with the love for Pietersen's batting around the world.

Let's not forget the likes of Bell, Carberry and Tremlett publicly defended Pietersen and were mysteriously never picked again. I'm going to stop there, otherwise I'd be writing forever.

This is obviously about Stokes, but also consistency. In my view Pietersen shouldn't ever have been axed. He even got the most runs for England in the 0-5 ashes series loss. He was a scapegoat. Stokes on the other hand has mountains of dirt against his name. It would be disgraceful if he ever got picked again considering Pietersen's treatment by the ECB.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

This for me is all about consistency. They completely scapegoated Pietersen and to this day I believe his axing was nonsense considering all the facts. If they axed Pietersen (ECB and Strauss) then picking Stokes ever again would be extremely contradictory and inconsistent.

There is a difference. Pietersen was a dick inside dressing room and Stokes is a dick outside dressing room

 

[flibbertyjibber]

You don't like Stokes, we get it.

 

[Spikey]

gonna send this to Border Patrol

 

[fredfertang]

It was down to the ECB to manage Pietersen, and I could never really understand why they seemed to expect him to manage them

As for Stokes we shouldn't rush to judgment, but at the very least he's certainly guilty of behaving like a moron

 

[TestMatch]

If dropping KP made little sense, I don't see why we should expect the ECB's stance on Stokes to make sense.

I personally don't buy the idea that KP was some "disruptive influence" on the dressing room. I met him once, and the impression I immediately got was that he was a extremely vain pretty boy who lacked self-awareness - and so didn't realize how funny his behavior is - but who was extremely kind, giving and caring (especially to young cricketers). That kind of personality clashes with the "alpha", "laddish" personality of Broad and company, who I can see relentlessly bullying and teasing it.

 

[Starfighter]

<wall of text>

Put simply the people who most liked Pietersen were the ones who didn't have to spend lots of time with him. He was not a good team influence and this seems to have been the case for a long time. Nothing to do with his IPL riches and everything to do with his personality. You'll find that a few people won't have a problem with him but they seem to be in the small minority. If people keep having problems with a person it might just be their fault.

There's a conspiracy that people weren't picked after defending him? Carberry was perhaps hard done by but you couldn't pretend he was a success. Tremlett should never have been recalled and Bell was dropped because he had been crap for ages. Utter bull.

05 was eight years before. Things change in that time.

 

[eempyrean]

If dropping KP made little sense, I don't see why we should expect the ECB's stance on Stokes to make sense.

I personally don't buy the idea that KP was some "disruptive influence" on the dressing room. I met him once, and the impression I immediately got was that he was a extremely vain pretty boy who lacked self-awareness - and so didn't realize how funny his behavior is - but who was extremely kind, giving and caring (especially to young cricketers). That kind of personality clashes with the "alpha", "laddish" personality of Broad and company, who I can see relentlessly bullying and teasing it.

Other players were more disruptive than Pietersen that's for sure.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Other players were more disruptive than Pietersen that's for sure.

Part of the dressing room were you?

 

[Scaly piscine]

13. SWEARING AT KOHLI

That's my favourite. It's like a very strange version of the 10 commandments.