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Australia's Test fast bowling depth

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I honestly don't think so. Bichel was a decent enough Test-standard bowler at best, would have likely had a long career in just about any other country, but I can't see him being much more effective than Lee tbh.

This is a good example for @trundler of an Aus 00s domestic player actually being overrated
I’m not saying he would’ve been an ATG. But I’d have much preferred him and his style of bowling being our third quick behind McGrath and Gillespie (and with Warne or MacGill) than Lee.

I think Lee benefited from the fact that he was quick and “an enforcer” who could just leak runs because if it got out of hand they’d just return to the other three.

The majority of the time I’d have preferred Kaspa or Bichel to Lee. Lee did have a later period where he was better than early on, but over the whole dynasty I think the other two would’ve done as well if not better while providing more pressure.

Lee was better at selling WeetBix though so there’s that.
 

TheJediBrah

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I’m not saying he would’ve been an ATG. But I’d have much preferred him and his style of bowling being our third quick behind McGrath and Gillespie (and with Warne or MacGill) than Lee.

I think Lee benefited from the fact that he was quick and “an enforcer” who could just leak runs because if it got out of hand they’d just return to the other three.

The majority of the time I’d have preferred Kaspa or Bichel to Lee. Lee did have a later period where he was better than early on, but over the whole dynasty I think the other two would’ve done as well if not better while providing more pressure.

Lee was better at selling WeetBix though so there’s that.
That's funny because I think being pigeon-holed into an "enforcer" role actually hurt Lee rather than benefited him. If he was just backed to bowl properly with an appropriate field most of the time rather than bouncer/yorker 2 men out type of **** he might have looked a lot better at the end of the day.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Lee was awesome at selling Weet Bix. It was a key part of being an Australian cricketer at the time, and a really underrated part of his legacy. Bichel really should have devoted more time to developing his Weet Bix marketing skills to become a more rounded selection option.
 

Coronis

Cricketer Of The Year
Lee was awesome at selling Weet Bix. It was a key part of being an Australian cricketer at the time, and a really underrated part of his legacy. Bichel really should have devoted more time to developing his Weet Bix marketing skills to become a more rounded selection option.
How many do you do?
 

Nintendo

International Captain
I always had the perception that lee got so much game time despite his overall mediocre stats because he was viewed as something of an allrounder when he first came into the team and was a point of difference with the extra pace, no?
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
That's funny because I think being pigeon-holed into an "enforcer" role actually hurt Lee rather than benefited him. If he was just backed to bowl properly with an appropriate field most of the time rather than bouncer/yorker 2 men out type of **** he might have looked a lot better at the end of the day.
Did Lee bowl like that because he was told to or because he was a bit Brett Lee? He got the new ball enough. Someone with his combo of pace, reasonable control, decent outswinger and (unlike many express bowlers) was comfortable bowling close to the stumps should have done significantly better than averaging 30.
 

TheJediBrah

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I always had the perception that lee got so much game time despite his overall mediocre stats because he was viewed as something of an allrounder when he first came into the team and was a point of difference with the extra pace, no?
Nah. He was surprisingly handy at times and had some good knocks especially in the 2000-02 home seasons but it never had anything to do with his selection
Did Lee bowl like that because he was told to or because he was a bit Brett Lee? He got the new ball enough. Someone with his combo of pace, reasonable control, decent outswinger and (unlike many express bowlers) was comfortable bowling close to the stumps should have done significantly better than averaging 30.
I'm sure it was a bit of both
 

Flem274*

123/5
Yeah my memory of Brett Lee was he was never the brightest, and tended to respond to some tap with very predictable bouncers or yorkers rather than maintaining good areas or some other kind of change up.

He did bring incredible fitness and consistency of pace to the side, and early career was almost unplayable. He also redeemed himself in 2008 by getting a bit wiser and leading the test attack very well.
 

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The normal awards that everyone else has
That's funny because I think being pigeon-holed into an "enforcer" role actually hurt Lee rather than benefited him. If he was just backed to bowl properly with an appropriate field most of the time rather than bouncer/yorker 2 men out type of **** he might have looked a lot better at the end of the day.
Yeh this is true I think. From memory, once McGrath retired, Lee actually focussed on bowling smarter and stump to stump and became a much better bowler for a period of time.
 

Coronis

Cricketer Of The Year
Samplesizelol, but he played 17 tests post McGrath, averaged 28 and took 3 of his 10 five’fers in that period.
 

TheJediBrah

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Samplesizelol, but he played 17 tests post McGrath, averaged 28 and took 3 of his 10 five’fers in that period.
So many different factors that could influence that stat, up and down, other than specifically his bowling tactics with/without McGrath that it's probably not a particularly useful stat tbh
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
IIRC Lee’s stats took a beating because of his role & the fields which were set to him

At his pace, anything more than a few metres away from a fielder behind the wicket went for 4 but he rarely bowled with a third man so runs were continually leaking

Hot take time

Lee was scary quick but he didn’t have the best of short balls

Would have been better served trying to york batsmen than bouncing them out
 

TheJediBrah

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Would have been better served trying to york batsmen
Think you'll find he did that quite a bit . . .

Nah you're right though. He had a shocking time bowling at the death in ODIs. Batsmen would not have a clue against him but they'd edge past the keeper or over the keeper for boundaries all the time. Never should have bowled at the death.
 

Molehill

International Captain
Think you'll find he did that quite a bit . . .

Nah you're right though. He had a shocking time bowling at the death in ODIs. Batsmen would not have a clue against him but they'd edge past the keeper or over the keeper for boundaries all the time. Never should have bowled at the death.
You say 'shocking time', but I'm always reminded of this match. England needing 14 runs from 3 overs, 4 wickets remaining and a well set Flintoff/Collingwood at the crease. Cue Brett Lee bowling verrrrry fast!!


PS What on earth was Ronnie ****ing Irani doing batting at 3????
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Yeah my memory of Brett Lee was he was never the brightest, and tended to respond to some tap with very predictable bouncers or yorkers rather than maintaining good areas or some other kind of change up.

He did bring incredible fitness and consistency of pace to the side, and early career was almost unplayable. He also redeemed himself in 2008 by getting a bit wiser and leading the test attack very well.
This drove me absolutely spare in 2005. It felt every over you could guarantee the first or last ball would be halfway down, and probably go for a boundary, in which case the next one would likely be an attempted yorker which would turn into a half volley.
 

TheJediBrah

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You say 'shocking time', but I'm always reminded of this match. England needing 14 runs from 3 overs, 4 wickets remaining and a well set Flintoff/Collingwood at the crease. Cue Brett Lee bowling verrrrry fast!!


PS What on earth was Ronnie ****ing Irani doing batting at 3????
Haha I remember that well. England were looking for a no. 3 pinch-hitter type for the World Cup and thought it might be Ronnie. He made a 30-odd off 20 balls one game but, unsurprisingly, was largely unsuccessful.
 

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