Australian openers

[Flametree]

Where does David Warner now rank amongst Australia's all time openers? Just wondered if you were picking Australia's ATG 1st xi, 2nd xi etc, into which eleven you would place him..

(Apologies, I tried to run this as a poll but can't seem to get that to work [later, I see, the poll comes after you hit submit...], and tried to format the below into a nice table but that doesn't want to work either..)


Here are the top 25 contenders with their records as openers.

Name ... Era … Runs … Average
Archie Jackson ... 1929-31 … 340 … 48.6
Arthur Morris ... 1946-55 … 3,381 … 45.7
Bill Brown ... 1934-48 … 1,404 … 50.1
Bill Lawry ... 1961-71 … 5,234 … 47.2
Bill Ponsford ... 1926-34 … 1,517 … 54.2
Bill Woodfull ... 1926-34 … 2,036 … 50.9
Bobby Simpson ... 1960-68 … 3,666 … 55.5
Chris Rogers ... 2008-15 … 2,015 … 42.9
Colin McDonald ... 1952-61 … 3,073 … 39.4
David Boon ... 1985-93 … 2,616 … 45.1
David Warner ... 2011-20 … 7,199 … 49.6
Herbie Collins ... 1920-26 … 1,199 … 46.1
Ian Redpath ... 1964-76 … 2,492 … 44.5
Jack Fingleton ... 1932-38 … 987 … 39.5
Justin Langer ... 1993-2007 … 5,112 … 48.2
Keith Stackpole ... 1969-74 … 2,390 … 40.5
Kepler Wessels ... 1982-85 … 1,066 … 39.5
Mark Taylor ... 1989-99 … 7,525 … 43.5
Matthew Hayden ... 1994-2009 … 8,625 … 50.7
Michael Slater ... 1993-2001 … 5,312 … 42.8
Phil Jaques ... 2005-08 … 902 … 47.5
Sid Barnes ... 1946-48 … 982 … 70.1
Simon Katich ... 2004-10 … 3,187 … 51.4
Victor Trumper ... 1901-12 … 1,650 … 33.0
Warren Bardsley ... 1909-26 … 1,755 … 41.8



Interesting to see how well Simpson did as opener, and how Trumper was more successful when not opening. Katich's numbers surprised me as well.

Absentees from the list include Rick McCosker who averaged just 33 as an opener - did far better at number 3. A curious one was Reggie Duff, who I initially planned to include as an average of 35 in his era was pretty decent. But he averaged just 29 as an opener, with more success down the order, include a century from number 10. In that innings, Australia were 50-5 and got to 350 with a tail of Trumper, Hill, Noble, Duff and Armstrong.... different times.

For what it's worth I go
1st xi : Ponsford - Simpson (the latter for his slip fielding and handy leggies),
2nd xi : Woodfull - Barnes,
3rd xi : Hayden - Lawry,
4th xi : Warner - Brown.
5th xi : Langer - Morris (Boon at number 3 maybe here)

Trumper can bat down the order in some team or other, and I didn't consider Jackson due to his short career.

 

[Prince EWS]

I think CW and especially the broader cricket media community has a lot of Morris fans for whatever reason; he'd probably end up better than the fifth eleven in a lot of teams. I think even I rate him a bit below the average CWer but I'd have him higher than that.

I'd probably go:

First XI: Simpson and Trumper
Second XI: Ponsford and Woodfull
Third XI: Lawry and Morris
Fourth XI: Hayden and this is probably where Warner would appear for me (especially if I didn't pick Boon elsewhere in the team in the previous teams)

 

[Coronis]

Hayden Simpson
Trumper Lawry
Ponsford Morris
Warner Woodfull

Trying to have an attacking opener and a more defensive opener together in each side. Katich unlucky to miss out. On a different day these names might all be in a different order, besides the first two.

 

[honestbharani]

Warner suffers a bit in these contests due to the sheer quality of openers Australia have had previously.

 

[Daemon]

Australia's had so many gun openers, bit ridiculous.

 

[stephen]

And yet none of those openers have dominated so well that they're indisputably in the first XI. I mean I've had Hayden-Trumper in the past but there's a lot of support for Simpson- Lawry or even Morris.

 

[honestbharani]

Well, it is possible to have a lot of equally good quality players from your own country for a certain position. While it may make such exercises tough, its obvious it has served your team better that way than when you have one stand out option and some hacks post that till you finally get the next good one, like Indian openers.

 

[NUFAN]

How did you get 3187 test runs for Katich opening?

I can see 2928 runs.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Katich the real surprise there. It's not like he played in a particularly road-y era in Australia either.

 

[honestbharani]

Always had time for his batting style. And his chinamen/left arm leggies were extremely useful too.

 

[Red]

Simpson - Trumper
Morris - Lawry
Warner - Woodfull
Ponsford - Langer

 

[Coronis]

Simpson - Trumper
Morris - Lawry
Warner - Woodfull
Ponsford - Langer

No Hayden?

 

[Burgey]

Hayden gets marked down heavily for well documented reasons, but I would think he certainly belongs in this discussion. Certainly a better player than Langer and Warner at the least imo, and probably Ponsford as well, who frankly didn't like it up him.

 

[ataraxia]

I've thought over this heaps previously, and Warner is down the order in the 4th side in place of Martyn/I Chappell/Boon/M Waugh

1st: Morris-Simpson
2nd: Trumper-Lawry
3rd: Hayden-Barnes
4th: Ponsford-Woodfull (Warner at 3 or 4)
5th: Langer-Brown
6th: Taylor-Bardsley-Boon

Always thought Brown is underrated going of his FC record. 3rd and 4th side's openers can swap around.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/77914-all-time-xis-discussion.html

 

[sphynx]

It depends if the match is played in Australia, Warner’s record ****s on most of the players listed if so.

He has 18 x 100’s @ 66 in Australia.

I don’t hold Simpson as some auto selection, he played about 35 tests as an opener, struggled in every other batting slot, I feel he’s more of a statistical outlier rather than the greatest opener in Australian history.

In saying that he performed in the subcontinent, hard to tell if those pitches were an Indian road vs the modern Bunsen that gets ditched up these days when Australians tour.

There’s a big difference.

You would have Warner in lieu of Morris for a home series and Morris for an away Ashes series where he averaged 57.

Morris averaged 41 in Australia, no way is he a no.1 picked opener for a home series.

For all Warner’s detractors, Trumper is near the top of most of these lists and he averaged 27 in England as well...

 

[sphynx]

Home: Warner & Hayden (Lawry a close 3rd)
England: Morris & Ponsford (Langer a close 3rd)
Subcontinent: Simpson & Hayden


Given Hayden is in two of these lists he’d go near to an all-round side, despite his record in England and South Africa.

Langer is pretty much the polar opposite, an absolutely beast of a record practically anywhere the ball doesn’t spin.

 

[Athlai]

Zimbabwe: Hayden opens by himself IMO.

 

[Burgey]

UAE vs Pakistan as well.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Zimbabwe: Hayden opens by himself IMO.

He never played in Zimbabwe tho

 

[Athlai]

Perth is in Africa I'm pretty sure.