• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Australian Cricket and All-Rounders

The Maestro

School Boy/Girl Captain
Anybody got an insight as to why this strong cricketing nation simply cannot produce a decent one?

Ive been watching cricket since about 1978 and I cant recall a single good all-rounder. ODI meduim pace trundlers and wicket-keeper batsmen aside......whats the matter with the Aussies?

Cant mutli-task with any level of class?

I dont mean to take the mickey, but its a pretty poor effort au. I cant think of heaps of good all rounders other nations have produced in that time :)


Kallis
McMillan B
Flintoff
Cairns C
Botham
Hadlee
Dev
Khan I
Oram
Pollock
Gayle

-add more at will-

Yes theres a couple of border-line ones there, but name me a better Aussie one :)
 

Crazy Sam

International 12th Man
andrew symonds is an all-rounder, and he is australia's best odi player. ;)


watson would be a great player had he not had that terrible run of injuries a few years back. Now he unfortunately lacks confidence with batting and bowling, or at least gives that impression the whole time. Perhaps if he relaxed a bit his bowling may improve.
 

The Maestro

School Boy/Girl Captain
Well I await the stats Gurus to battle that one out, but I remember him as being pretty ordinary.

You may as well have said Greg Matthews :)
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
The Maestro said:
Well I await the stats Gurus to battle that one out, but I remember him as being pretty ordinary.

You may as well have said Greg Matthews :)
Well, his test batting average is 40, pity his bowling average is too. Not bad for someone picked as a bowling all-rounder. :blink:

And I think that the :ph34r: smiley indicated that the SOD suggestion was slightly in jest.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Allrounders just aren't in vogue in Australia. Basically, if a player shows ability with bat and ball, they're picked and watched until it's discovered what they're better at. Then coaches insist they concentrate on that and forget about the other thing.

Ironically, Aussies also have the propensity to pick batsmen who aren't quite good enough to make the main side, tell them to start bowling and then start picking them as 'batting allrounders' to justify their inclusion in the side.

It's all in the attitude, really. Aussie selectors are supposedly crying out for an allrounder of Test class but then they do the above and ensure they'll never see one.
 

The Maestro

School Boy/Girl Captain
Oh true I didnt pick that about SOD

Bowling average of 40? Hardly a bowler at all really, or I would have put Nathan Astle on my list (actually hes prob more like 50)

Before someone says it, please spare us the "we're so good we dont need them line"

true as it may be

lol
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
The Maestro said:
Oh true I didnt pick that about SOD

Bowling average of 40? Hardly a bowler at all really, or I would have put Nathan Astle on my list (actually hes prob more like 50)

Before someone says it, please spare us the "we're so good we dont need them line"

true as it may be

lol
The bowling and batting average of 40 was in reference to Matthews, who you mentioned.

The :ph34r: thing was about SOD. My apologies for allowing the confusion.

Top_Cat said:
Allrounders just aren't in vogue in Australia. Basically, if a player shows ability with bat and ball, they're picked and watched until it's discovered what they're better at. Then coaches insist they concentrate on that and forget about the other thing.

Ironically, Aussies also have the propensity to pick batsmen who aren't quite good enough to make the main side, tell them to start bowling and then start picking them as 'batting allrounders' to justify their inclusion in the side.

It's all in the attitude, really. Aussie selectors are supposedly crying out for an allrounder of Test class but then they do the above and ensure they'll never see one.
Exactly, and especially at a young age. If your going to be playing a senior grade of cricket, you need to make sure that at least one of the aspects of your game is at a good enough level to get you a promotion to a higher side, therefore you often concentrate on that aspect.

In addition, if your a promising young batsman, and your a pretty good bowler for your own age level, but not very good at senior level, then chances are that the bowling side of your game will be neglected, even in the nets at training, and you don't get a chance to hone it. Then when your side is crying out for an all-rounder, you think "Well, I could have been one if you let me :@".

I've seen it happen (I wish it was to me though, lol, it'd give me an excuse for my mediocrity :D )
 

Sir Redman

State Vice-Captain
I think the same sort of thing is happenning everywhere with young players being made to specialise. In club cricket a young allrounder may perform both roles equally but when they get to higher levels they are being discouraged from pursuing both disciplines equally.

This has even happened to me a bit. I'm an allrounder for my club team - for God's sake I'm almost the spearhead of our bowling attack despite bowling at Chris Harris-esque pace - but my bowling doesn't get a look in for my rep team. When our Under 18s went to Australia last year I was picked as a batsman and even when injuries took a couple of our bowlers out of action one game I wasn't used to fill up the overs, despite our captain being my school captain as well and using me for 10 overs every school game.

I think this is leading to a whole heap of batsmen who can bowl a bit and bowlers who can bat a bit. As for why Australia hasn't had any true allrounders I don't know, but it could be because they have always coached that way and as a result haven't pruduced any true allrounders.
 

social

Hall of Fame Member
vic_orthdox said:
The bowling and batting average of 40 was in reference to Matthews, who you mentioned.

The :ph34r: thing was about SOD. My apologies for allowing the confusion.


Exactly, and especially at a young age. If your going to be playing a senior grade of cricket, you need to make sure that at least one of the aspects of your game is at a good enough level to get you a promotion to a higher side, therefore you often concentrate on that aspect.

In addition, if your a promising young batsman, and your a pretty good bowler for your own age level, but not very good at senior level, then chances are that the bowling side of your game will be neglected, even in the nets at training, and you don't get a chance to hone it. Then when your side is crying out for an all-rounder, you think "Well, I could have been one if you let me :@".

I've seen it happen (I wish it was to me though, lol, it'd give me an excuse for my mediocrity :D )
Pretty good summary, Vic.

Another factor lies in the state of Australian pitches. To be consistently successful as a bowler in Aus at international level, you generally need to be quick or an exceptional spinner. Needless, to say, it is rare to find bowlers with these qualities let alone someone that is also an outstanding batsman (hence the excitement over the potential of Watson).
 

greg

State Captain
In 1993 Mark Waugh opened the bowling in an Ashes match :D

I think that many all-rounders are 'discovered' by chance, because international teams are desperate for them to balance their sides. People thought to be no better than medium pacers are suddenly encouraged to run in a little harder and it's suddenly discovered that they have the potential to bowl at serious pace (Craig White and Flintoff are both examples of this). Or you have people like Jayasuriya who are promoted up the order in ODI games, and to everyone's surprise have the potential to become seriously good batsmen. Basically until people are given the responsibility of doing either discipline as something other than a part-timer they won't apply themselves properly to reach their full potential.

Aus strength in recent years has counted against them. They have just been too strong in both batting and bowling to ever need to experiment and discover people by accident.
 

Top