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ATG Teams: CW 2022 Results

Line and Length

Cricketer Of The Year
We have had our members vote for a list of batsmen, pace bowlers, spinners and a short list of wicketkeepers. We are currently voting on openers and it is generally accepted that there may be variations from the Batsmen Voting (eg Trumper might be classified as an opener but his stats suggest he was better in the MO).

From these lists we can compile teams from these lists and these teams, presumably, would be ATG XIs.

My main reservations are three fold. Firstly the list of 'keepers was compiled as wicketkeeper/batsmen which meant luminaries such as Tallon, Evans and Oldfield were overlooked. Secondly, the list of pace bowlers overlooked medium pacers and as a consequence Barnes, Bedser and others were ignored. Finally, voters generally overlooked very early performers and, as a result, we have no W.G.Grace and others for our teams.

Having said all that, here are the first 3 teams from these lists. When the opening batsmen voting selects Simpson's partner I'll add the 4th team. We will then continue (hopefully) until we exhaust our list of 10 'keepers (actually now 9 as Sangakarra earns selection as a batsman in the Fourth XI).

First XI
Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Tendulkar
Richards
Sobers
Gilchrist
Hadlee
Marshall
Muralitharan
McGrath

Second XI
Gavaskar
Sutcliffe
Lara
S.Smith
Hammond
Imran Khan
Knott
Warne
Lillee
Steyn
Ambrose

Third XI
Boycott
G.Smith
Headley
G.Chappell
Ponting
Kallis
Watling
Wasim Akram
Trueman
Donald
O'Reilly

The batting order I have listed on each occasion is open for changes. Interestingly, Sobers would have gained selection solely as a batsman in the First XI but I have included him as the top ranked all-rounder.
 

PlayerComparisons

International Debutant
I was selecting along the following lines:

2 openers
3 MOB
1 All rounder
1 Wicketkeeper
3 Pace bowlers
1 spinner.

Imran batted more innings at # 7 (63) than at # 8 (30) and his best performances with the bat came in 23 knocks at # 6 averaging 61.87
I guess #7 is fine for him if the wicketkeeper bats at 8. #6 is too high for Imran in my opinion. Don’t really need the fifth bowler to be as good as Imran was with the ball but definitely need the #6 batsmen to be better than Imran was with the bat.

It makes sense to include him there based on your criteria though.
 

Coronis

Cricketer Of The Year
Mm, I might change up the batting order there, simply based on the strike rates, I’d probably move Ponting to 3 so you have someone aggressive after that opening pair, then Headley Chappell Kallis so its going low/high/low in terms of SR.
 

bagapath

International Captain
Mm, I might change up the batting order there, simply based on the strike rates, I’d probably move Ponting to 3 so you have someone aggressive after that opening pair, then Headley Chappell Kallis so its going low/high/low in terms of SR.
Kallis never batted at 6. might have done for a few insignificant no of innings. but he wasn't a no 6. best suited at 4 or 3. probably the team composition should change.

full respect to the effort, mate
but I think this is a great opp to keep this exercise consistent with the real batting positions so that this series remains relevant for a long long time
 

Line and Length

Cricketer Of The Year
Kallis never batted at 6. might have done for a few insignificant no of innings. but he wasn't a no 6. best suited at 4 or 3. probably the team composition should change.

full respect to the effort, mate
but I think this is a great opp to keep this exercise consistent with the real batting positions so that this series remains relevant for a long long time
I know what you mean, but the vast majority (other than 11 openers) on the Top 50 batsmen as voted batted at 3 or 4.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Yes, there were a lot more 3 and 4s, 11 openers, and few specialist 5s and 6s in the 50. It is hard for someone at 6 to really 'drive' an innings- either fixing things after wickets have fallen or continuing good work set up by the top 4 (Gilchrist at 7 was an exception as he could do all of the above).
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
I know these lists are based purely on their primary skills, and nothing wrong with that. But when we look at overall quality as cricketers, it really pushes guys like Bobby Simpson higher up. A solid leader, superb slip fielder and more than useful spin bowler all added to being an under rated opener, he truly beings a lot to a team.
Slotting him into the first team really would make the overall team just that more well rounded.

Also think Imran would bring more to the team than Hadlee. He would be more effective with the old ball, bringing that added aspect of reverse swing. Hadlee is also really close to McGrath in style and pace and Imran's differing lines of attack and modus operandi would again, make a difference.

It's really the little nuances that can make or break a team at the highest levels of competition.

And yes, I acknowledge this wasn't the purpose of the exercise, I was just adding in my two cents worth.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Tendulkar
Richards
Sobers
Gilchrist
Imran
Hadlee
Warne
Marshall
Muralitharan
McGrath


I'd take that XI
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Tendulkar
Richards
Sobers
Gilchrist
Imran
Hadlee
Warne
Marshall
Muralitharan
McGrath


I'd take that XI
That's really good. Doesn't quite match my selections, but really solid and well thought out.

Tail all at once, somehow both the longest and shortest for these XIs

Also don't foresee too many occasions you would need 5 specialists bowlers including two spinners, but understand the built in variety.

Sobers being the only quality slipper is a bit of a concern that could cause issues later

Finally, I prefer not including all three fast bowlers from the same era, having McGrath or Steyn would offer some cover there, but understand that would compromise the batting depth.
 

bagapath

International Captain
my point is, which I am sure all of you got already, that no 6 is as much a specialist position as no 3. while some batsmen can be used as no 3 or as no 4 (Lara, Kallis, G Chappell, Viv Richards) and some can be used as no 5 or no 6 (S Waugh, Clive Lloyd) most of the no. 3s cannot be asked to bat down the order (Dravid, Amla, Ponting) and the no 5s and 6s cannot be used at no 3 (Border, ABDV, Chenaderpal).

the no of wicket keepers and the no of specialist opening pairs we can cull out of the overall list shud define/ limit the no of teams we can form. and within that we should be able to distribute these specialists pretty sensibly.
 

Line and Length

Cricketer Of The Year
The exercise is to name teams from the order recorded in each of the voting threads. There will be flaws regarding balance and batting order, but it is a hypothetical listing of teams based purely and simply on the voting order in the nominated categories.
I enjoy reading the comments on the teams and the suggested changes in batting order. However, I'm not going to deviate from the player selection process described at the beginning of of this thread.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Also don't foresee too many occasions you would need 5 specialists bowlers including two spinners, but understand the built in variety.
You can't assume this hypothetical XI won't be playing on a turner. If they do, imagine the hell Warne + Murali can unleash on the opposition. And the 3 pacers selected have good records in subcontinent too. This is truly an all conditions attack.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
You can't assume this hypothetical XI won't be playing on a turner. If they do, imagine the hell Warne + Murali can unleash on the opposition. And the 3 pacers selected have good records in subcontinent too. This is truly an all conditions attack.
Potentially at the expense of the batting though.

The advantage of a Gilchrist is him batting at 7, adding the depth to the line up.
 

Line and Length

Cricketer Of The Year
Fourth XI

Simpson
Greenidge
Sangakarra
G.Pollock
Border
Miller
Ames
Lindwall
Holding
Laker
Garner

Ames is the gloveman with Sangakarra purely a specialist bat.
 

Line and Length

Cricketer Of The Year
We can now add the Fifth XI as the 9th and 10th spots on the Openers voting has been established.

Sehwag
B.Richards
Barrington
Miandad
S.Waugh
Botham
Healy
S.Pollock
Davidson
Waqar Younis
Grimmett

This XI bats strongly down to #9 and a case could be made for a number of changes in order from 6 to 9.
 

HookShot

U19 Vice-Captain
I was selecting along the following lines:

2 openers
3 MOB
1 All rounder
1 Wicketkeeper
3 Pace bowlers
1 spinner.

Imran batted more innings at # 7 (63) than at # 8 (30) and his best performances with the bat came in 23 knocks at # 6 averaging 61.87
We should probably be more specific….

2 openers
3 MOB
1 Batting All rounder
1 Wicketkeeper
1 Bowling All rounder
2 Pace bowlers
1 spinner

If you have a balanced all-rounder like Botham, Imran, Kapil rather than a bowling all-rounder then you can bat them at No.7 and pick a specialist keeper.


The problem is that Imran is either a balanced all-rounder (late career) or a bowling all-rounder….not a batting all-rounder.
 

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