Are the Aussies getting back to the attitude era?

[Contra]

It's really not. Australia really don't have much to improve on in general in T20s, just performing on the occasions.

However, Australia are not going to win a test series in India without genuine improvement, and a bit of luck won't help much. A test win in India would be a real sign of the team becoming more dominant, more so than a random world t20 win.

I never disputed that a test win in India would be bigger, I just disagree that all you need is a bit of luck to win a world T20.

 

[Antihippy]

Nah I actually do think we need some improvements in our T20I game though, which has weirdly never really clicked together despite exporting more T20 players to franchises all around the world than the west indians.

Maxwell for example is kind of terrible in T20Is.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I never disputed that a test win in India would be bigger, I just disagree that all you need is a bit of luck to win a world T20.

Then you've done a good job on taking one small, obviously hyperbolic aspect of a larger point and completely ignoring the actual point.

Say you play the last World T20 ten times in different realities, you'd probably be lucky to see the same team win in more than 3 of them. Of course better teams are more likely to win, but you can't deny there's more luck involved than 50 over cricket or test cricket, and single pieces of luck have a higher chance of deciding a match. If you played the 2003 or 2007 ODI world cup ten times, I'd bet Australia would probably win 9 out of 10, same with the 2011 world cup, India would probably win 7-8 times out of 10. I don't think you could say that about any world T20.

obviously not all you need to win a world T20 is "a bit of luck". Don't take everything so literally.

Nah I actually do think we need some improvements in our T20I game though, which has weirdly never really clicked together despite exporting more T20 players to franchises all around the world than the west indians.

Maxwell for example is kind of terrible in T20Is.

Such as? Other than just "clicking", as you said, I can't think of much we really need to do as far as skills and tactics are concerned.

It is funny that Australia can be so dominant in World Cups, yet not play the big moments well in T20 world cups. It can't just be coincidence. Possibly I'd put it down to Australia not really caring about T20 up until the last one in Bangladesh where we seemed to be taking it seriously leading up to it, but then just played ****. But then we didn't win the ODI World Cup in Asia either so maybe it was largely a matter of conditions. But yeah we were pretty shocking in that last one.

 

[Jono]

There was that ridiculous LBW non-call in 2010 when Johnson had whoever it was trapped plumb in front when they were 9 down. India ended up winning by 1 wicket.

Ishant was given out incorrectly LBW to get India 9 down.

 

[Gob]

Ishant was given out incorrectly LBW to get India 9 down.

yeah it was a fair game with bad decisions cancelling out.Smiths direct hit was the closest aust came to winning it.shame the ball didn't go to pontings hand.

 

[Maximas]

Then you've done a good job on taking one small, obviously hyperbolic aspect of a larger point and completely ignoring the actual point.

Say you play the last World T20 ten times in different realities, you'd probably be lucky to see the same team win in more than 3 of them. Of course better teams are more likely to win, but you can't deny there's more luck involved than 50 over cricket or test cricket, and single pieces of luck have a higher chance of deciding a match. If you played the 2003 or 2007 ODI world cup ten times, I'd bet Australia would probably win 9 out of 10, same with the 2011 world cup, India would probably win 7-8 times out of 10. I don't think you could say that about any world T20.

obviously not all you need to win a world T20 is "a bit of luck". Don't take everything so literally.



Such as? Other than just "clicking", as you said, I can't think of much we really need to do as far as skills and tactics are concerned.

It is funny that Australia can be so dominant in World Cups, yet not play the big moments well in T20 world cups. It can't just be coincidence. Possibly I'd put it down to Australia not really caring about T20 up until the last one in Bangladesh where we seemed to be taking it seriously leading up to it, but then just played ****. But then we didn't win the ODI World Cup in Asia either so maybe it was largely a matter of conditions. But yeah we were pretty shocking in that last one.

Nah man, Sri Lanka spent two years meticulously planning and honing in on their skills, plans and combinations in preparation for the last world t20, it should have surprised nobody when they won the thing. The t20 game requires consistent execution of very difficult to execute skills under pressure in order to be successful these days because of the amount of t20 being played and the degree to which the skillset is being developed by the top players. Teams that only stumble across their preferred combinations and plans just before the cup after spending the last 2 years not giving a **** won't be able to play the big moments well and Australia is the perfect example.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Nah man, Sri Lanka spent two years meticulously planning and honing in on their skills, plans and combinations in preparation for the last world t20, it should have surprised nobody when they won the thing. The t20 game requires consistent execution of very difficult to execute skills under pressure in order to be successful these days because of the amount of t20 being played and the degree to which the skillset is being developed by the top players. Teams that only stumble across their preferred combinations and plans just before the cup after spending the last 2 years not giving a **** won't be able to play the big moments well and Australia is the perfect example.

I agree with the bolded, but it really has little to do with what I was saying tbh

Are you saying that you think luck doesn't play a bigger part in T20s than other forms? I'm finding the point you're trying to make unclear.

 

[Maximas]

No that's not what I'm trying to say, but just like test and ODI cricket t20 cricket has it's own challenges that teams need to address and the last 2 editions of the world t20 in particular have shown that they can be mastered and the best team can rightfully win the tournament, I feel you are under-estimating the amount of planning and preparation required to have a good chance of winning the thing. Sure there is an element of 'luck' or teams 'clicking' that can influence the games more given the shorter and more concentrated nature of the game but to say that Australia just need to turn up properly to win the thing is pretty silly I think when in order to turn up and 'click' as a team you really need to put more effort in during the 2 year lead up.

 

[TheJediBrah]

No that's not what I'm trying to say, but just like test and ODI cricket t20 cricket has it's own challenges that teams need to address and the last 2 editions of the world t20 in particular have shown that they can be mastered and the best team can rightfully win the tournament, I feel you are under-estimating the amount of planning and preparation required to have a good chance of winning the thing. Sure there is an element of 'luck' or teams 'clicking' that can influence the games more given the shorter and more concentrated nature of the game but to say that Australia just need to turn up properly to win the thing is pretty silly I think when in order to turn up and 'click' as a team you really need to put more effort in during the 2 year lead up.

That's where I tend to disagree. To a point. It's easy to say in hindsight that you're not surprised Sri Lanka won the last one, but not a whole lot of people were saying that beforehand. IIRC Australia were favourites for 2013 (2014?) world T20 in Bangladesh and had the shortest odds out of every team. They played **** though, that wasn't luck. But that's beside the point. Aus could have one a World T20 or 2 if some key moments had gone differently. You could probably say the same thing about South Africa in ODI World Cups.

However most (if not all) of what you said is true and obvious really.

 

[Maximas]

Well most people mustn't have been aware of how seriously SL was taking the world t20 then, which wouldn't surprise me, SL did beat the Aussies 2-0 in Aus about 4 months beforehand too.

 

[BigBrother]

Well most people mustn't have been aware of how seriously SL was taking the world t20 then, which wouldn't surprise me, SL did beat the Aussies 2-0 in Aus about 4 months beforehand too.

Well a lot of it would have also had to do it with the fact that they were constantly managing to get all the way to the finals of tournaments and kept on losing, Even in that tr-series in Australia where they managed to get to the finals and then got beaten yet again in important moments.

They would have just wanted to win something with a bit of significance instead of just series wins against lesser sides. Plus I think sub-continent sides put more emphasis on LO cricket than the rest, at least T20's certainly.

Tbh though, I don't think most of the serious cricketing community care that much about a t20 world cup. T20 isn't even played consistently internationally and it's the franchise stuff that gets all the media attention. I think they want to win for sure just like anything else, but I don't think they take it THAT seriously.

 

[ankitj]

I think any respectable Aussie fan knows that the WC win hardly means they are back to dominating cricket

Kind of thing that only Aussie fans have the luxury to say with 5 world cups in the bag.

 

[ankitj]

Nah man, Sri Lanka spent two years meticulously planning and honing in on their skills, plans and combinations in preparation for the last world t20, it should have surprised nobody when they won the thing. The t20 game requires consistent execution of very difficult to execute skills under pressure in order to be successful these days because of the amount of t20 being played and the degree to which the skillset is being developed by the top players. Teams that only stumble across their preferred combinations and plans just before the cup after spending the last 2 years not giving a **** won't be able to play the big moments well and Australia is the perfect example.

I think you are over emphasising the importance of preparation and planning for t20 events. It would have surprised no one even if India won the last world t20, which they may well have if Dhoni had the common sense of not playing Yuvraj ahead of himself and Raina. On the other hand, 2007 world t20 that India did win was what they had no business winning. They went into the event with an experience of grand total of one t20 match; every other team had played more. So much for preparations.

I kinda agree with JediBrah (and like his posting in this thread very much!)

 

[Niall]

Tbh though, I don't think most of the serious cricketing community care that much about a t20 world cup. T20 isn't even played consistently internationally and it's the franchise stuff that gets all the media attention. I think they want to win for sure just like anything else, but I don't think they take it THAT seriously.

I think a lot of sides don't take bilateral series t20 remotely seriously at all but world cups?Maybe Australia and England don't, but the rest? They all do especially the sub continent teams who all favour white ball cricket over test cricket.West Indies also take t20 very seriously. South Africa? They'd kill to win a world cup, they really are not in a position to look down at the format at all.

 

[Daemon]

Nah man, Sri Lanka spent two years meticulously planning and honing in on their skills, plans and combinations in preparation for the last world t20, it should have surprised nobody when they won the thing. The t20 game requires consistent execution of very difficult to execute skills under pressure in order to be successful these days because of the amount of t20 being played and the degree to which the skillset is being developed by the top players. Teams that only stumble across their preferred combinations and plans just before the cup after spending the last 2 years not giving a **** won't be able to play the big moments well and Australia is the perfect example.

India '07, England '10.

 

[Contra]

I think you can probably excuse the first or second World T20 because T20 in general was pretty new, just because India played literally only 1 T20 prior to the 07 WC doesn't mean other teams were more prepared because they barely played much themselves. No excuses for T20 failures post I'd say 2009 WC's because IPL was 2 seasons in and T20 had definitely become something to focus on. In fact India in 2007 made the best possible move and allowed the youngsters to take the front role know that they would be able to adapt faster for such a format. So glad that Tendulkar, Ganguly and Dravid saw the sense in it and bailed purposely.

 

[Valer]

Well most people mustn't have been aware of how seriously SL was taking the world t20 then, which wouldn't surprise me, SL did beat the Aussies 2-0 in Aus about 4 months beforehand too.

If I give you the SL win as other have mentioned the ENG/ IND wins were hardly off the back of strong prep. Seems like not enough data to me to say much either way.

 

[Maximas]

The t20 game has developed considerably in the last few years, anything before the 2012 world t20 was a bit of a lottery from what I saw, the tactics and general ability of the t20 playing cricket population to execute the exact skills required has been developed substantially since then. Sure any team can get on a good run and go far but you give yourself a much better chance if you take the bi-lateral t20s in the lead up seriously and work out your combinations early.

 

[Maximas]

I think you are over emphasising the importance of preparation and planning for t20 events. It would have surprised no one even if India won the last world t20, which they may well have if Dhoni had the common sense of not playing Yuvraj ahead of himself and Raina.

See? Planning

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah, the way SL executed the wide yorker plan to perfection showed how much planning and preparation they put into that game. Bowled brilliantly as a unit.