Andrew Symonds

[Prince EWS]

Sure, but not Cairns - who is the read deal.

It was still true though...

I liken what he said to "2.1, 2.2 and 8.7 are all greater values than 2." One of them looks clearly out of place indeed, but its still true all the same...

 

[luckyeddie]

It was still true though...

I liken what he said to "2.1, 2.2 and 8.7 are all greater values than 2." One of them looks clearly out of place indeed, but its still true all the same...

I never said it wasn't - I just said that he was insulting Chris Cairns by lumping him in with a bunch of pseudo one-day all-rounder wannabes.

 

[Prince EWS]

I never said it wasn't - I just said that he was insulting Chris Cairns by lumping him in with a bunch of pseudo one-day all-rounder wannabes.

I dont really think its insulting. He just listed all the recent NZ allrounders - Cairns simply happens to be the best of the bunch.

 

[marc71178]

You insult Chris Cairns by mentioning the other two in the same breath as him - he's a 'proper' all-rounder.

But as a Test All-rounder, he's gone.

 

[Maison]

my answer to whether or not he is fit to be in the worlds best Test XI?

"Only time will tell"

(give him a few matches. after all he was useful with the ball in the 2nd test against South Africa...)

 

[Ming]

Styris is a joke of an all-rounder, whose bowling average of more than 55 frankly flatters him. Oram's bowling is in a death-spiral of its own, so both can be pretty well reclassified as batsmen (good ones) without too much fear of contradiction.

You insult Chris Cairns by mentioning the other two in the same breath as him - he's a 'proper' all-rounder.

Let me remind you what Symonds' bowling average was before this Test? His first class bowling average is hardly impressive, being in the high 30s, and despite having played many matches on the average county scene, his average continues to be poor. It's a joke having Symonds as the Australian first change bowler.

Styris is a very underrated seamer, his domestic record is impressive, and he hasn't been given enough opportunites at Test level. Even though Oram has been in a bit of a lean trot lately, his bowling is still more potent than Symonds'. And Oram has a Test record to back it up. A bowling average of 36 and a batting average of 43 is nothing to be ashamed of. Symonds' will never get his stats to that level.

 

[Mister Wright]

Let me remind you what Symonds' bowling average was before this Test? His first class bowling average is hardly impressive, being in the high 30s, and despite having played many matches on the average county scene, his average continues to be poor. It's a joke having Symonds as the Australian first change bowler.

Styris is a very underrated seamer, his domestic record is impressive, and he hasn't been given enough opportunites at Test level. Even though Oram has been in a bit of a lean trot lately, his bowling is still more potent than Symonds'. And Oram has a Test record to back it up. A bowling average of 36 and a batting average of 43 is nothing to be ashamed of. Symonds' will never get his stats to that level.

Symonds hasn't always bowled as much as he does now, so it is no surprise that his bowling record isn't crash hot. No-one is claiming he is on par with Glenn McGrath or Brett Lee, but he is definitely a handy seam bowler, who can keep it tight and break partnerships and on the odd occasion take a small bag of wickets like he did at the 'G'.

 

[Jono]

I never said it wasn't - I just said that he was insulting Chris Cairns by lumping him in with a bunch of pseudo one-day all-rounder wannabes.

Why is Styris a one-day all-rounder wannabe?

I think there's a huge difference between a limited overs allrounder and a test one. I don't think the popular "you must be able to make the team with both your skills alone to be classed as an allrounder" works in the shortened game. I think the definition of an allrounder stretches for that, and Styris falls under that.

 

[Zinzan]

Everyone is so excited because Symonds took a couple of wickets and smashed a 70. He hasn't done anything bar that day. I would take Cairns, Oram and Styris as Test allrounders over that lard. What's with the cream on the lip? Makes him look like a fluffybunny.

There are other allrounders outside NZ.........Open your other eye once in a while

 

[greg]

Some serious wishful thinking going on in this thread. Symonds will probably end up with a test record akin to Chris Lewis.

 

[luckyeddie]

Why is Styris a one-day all-rounder wannabe?

I think there's a huge difference between a limited overs allrounder and a test one. I don't think the popular "you must be able to make the team with both your skills alone to be classed as an allrounder" works in the shortened game. I think the definition of an allrounder stretches for that, and Styris falls under that.

Styris, I will grant you, is a genuine one-day all-rounder and you are right to differentiate between the two forms, but I don't think that anyone was comparing Symonds to Styris here in anything other than the test arena (where Styris is a batsman only in all but name).

 

[luckyeddie]

Let me remind you what Symonds' bowling average was before this Test? His first class bowling average is hardly impressive, being in the high 30s, and despite having played many matches on the average county scene, his average continues to be poor. It's a joke having Symonds as the Australian first change bowler.

Styris is a very underrated seamer, his domestic record is impressive, and he hasn't been given enough opportunites at Test level. Even though Oram has been in a bit of a lean trot lately, his bowling is still more potent than Symonds'. And Oram has a Test record to back it up. A bowling average of 36 and a batting average of 43 is nothing to be ashamed of. Symonds' will never get his stats to that level.

Let me remind you that the comparison between two players can be made in a number of ways - if we were to take their performances in their LAST 6 tests, Symonds averages 32 whilst Styris averages, er, actually he didn't take a wicket - and this despite the fact that 4 of those games were against Bangladesh or Zimbabwe (now THAT's opportunity enough at test level. Hardly the performance of an 'under-rated seamer').

Oram's career as a bowler started off well but then after half a dozen tests the wheels seemed to fall off big time - whether this coincided with his injuries I'm not sure. Although his bowling looks to be seriously in danger of disappearing down the plug hole through no fault of his own, there's no denying his pedigree as a batsman. His biopic on the Black Caps site still says 'world class all-rounder' though. Did you write it? ( )

 

[Jono]

Styris, I will grant you, is a genuine one-day all-rounder and you are right to differentiate between the two forms, but I don't think that anyone was comparing Symonds to Styris here in anything other than the test arena (where Styris is a batsman only in all but name).

No doubt Styris is far from a test all-rounder, I was just responding to the 'one-day wannabe' comment.

 

[Josh]

But your NZ bias is far far worse than any of the Aussie bias seen on here in recent times.

That made me laugh

 

[luckyeddie]

No doubt Styris is far from a test all-rounder, I was just responding to the 'one-day wannabe' comment.

It was a bad choice of phrase.

Should have said pseudo one-day all-rounder specialist test wannabe

 

[tooextracool]

Someone had to take the blame for losing the Ashes, and i guess it was him and Clarke

it should actually have been hayden or katich. martyn nonetheless was extremely unlucky during that series, he got poor lbw decisions, a run out, a ball from harmison that he had no real chance against, and another from giles. its no wonder that he lost his form towards the end of that series.

 

[tooextracool]

Symonds bowled well today, and if he manages some runs in the second innings he might get another test. He didn't take any wickets though, so that might count against him.

one can only love the aussie desperation for an all rounder.

 

[Ming]

YEt another failure by Symonds. Should have been out earlier than what he made though. Bowling was pedestrian and never threatened to take a wicket.

 

[andyc]

YEt another failure by Symonds. Should have been out earlier than what he made though. Bowling was pedestrian and never threatened to take a wicket.

Which is why he took one?

 

[Ming]

Did he threaten to take that wicket?