Andre Nel and sledging

[Ikki]

Look mate, thats utter codswallop.
There are minimum decency standards to be followed on public television. If not, its about time cricket got a tougher censorship rating. It is disingenious to attribute and twist my statement to 'tv is bad for kids' simply because i am not arguing about tv- i am arguing about non fictional public performances. Obviously parents have a job to do but that does NOT negate the fact that public figures have a responsibility not to act like douchebags in midst of their performance.

When you are on the public spotlight, you have to behave. Period. If you cannot, you shouldnt BE on public spotlight. That comes with the job. I wouldnt say someone like Tendulkar is 'perfect' but his attitude is the one i want to promote. Not the Andre Nel type hooliganism.

Well for how many matches should Murali be banned for showing the finger to the Aussie crowd? Not meaning to bring Muttiah into this, but let's bring someone who you seem to idolise. How many matches? No one is perfect...

 

[Sanz]

Well for how many matches should Murali be banned for showing the finger to the Aussie crowd? Not meaning to bring Muttiah into this, but let's bring someone who you seem to idolise. How many matches? No one is perfect...

5 tests a minimum with his entire match fee. He certainly lost a lot of fans respect with that stupid action of his.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Hardly most people....as C_C said, the vast majority of people in the subcontinent regard sledging as unacceptable.
Anyway, even if it's harmless most people would still find it unpleasant, especially if subjected to it.

Most people in this thread don't have any problem with sledging, only with outright abuse, which is of course already forbidden. The majority of the stuff that goes on verbally on the cricket field falls well short of abuse, and it more in the area of provocative, pointed remarks to undermine the confidence of the opposition. Things like the keeper remarking to surrounding fielders that the batsman won't take long to get out, Warne calling Justin Kemp "Daryll", and one would assume jokes at the expense of the batsman as well. That sort of stuff, even if it contains stray swearing, is totally harmless, and yes I'd say the vast majority of people would find it such.

Furthermore, it's a legitimate part of cricket, and given that every team does it I'd say most people would agree with that as well.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

What passes for sledging out there is mostly not acceptable stuff.
I find it interesting that you take such a strong stance against reducing the nastyness in the game.

And dont be so sure on the 'most people would agree' part....most people from the subcontinent find swearing ( unless said in a very joking fashion) to be highly inflammatory.

I don't really see the need to reduce the nastyness in the game. Provided that the bad stuff that goes on stays on the field, and that it doesn't cross the line into physical violence or anything else (such as players yelling abuse at one another) that becomes too severe, then it's just part of competitive sport. Let's not forget that the people who play cricket are adults and professionals, and I'm pretty sure they can handle it. If you're worried about kids at home hearing naughty words, turn down the stump mics.

Interestingly, that's exactly what Michael Hussey said today. He said that the players in the second test weren't aware that the mics were being turned up louder than normal, and said it was a bad idea as there are things said on the cricket pitch that would be inappropriate for young viewers.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Is there a game where the opportunity to sledge is more prominent?

I'd say maybe golf. Except with golf, you can't hide behind the performance of others like you can in a team sport.

 

[benchmark00]

Please quit making ninny-eseque threatening remarks and take action ( or dont).
Either which way its utterly irrelevant to me. If you wanna lock it, then do so. If you dont, then dont. We are all aware of the petty rule and given the general disregard for it here,i suggest you either go update your rulebook ( it would be called public litigation act in legal parlayance) or start taking action.

 

[viktor]

You don't get it, do you? When you are in the limelight of mainstream media AND representing your country, there are certain responsibilities and therefore, certain things that you simply CANNOT do. It is like a price that has to be paid for being talented in a sport and famous (and obviously RICH).

No, I don't get it.There always are responsibilities by virtue of the fact that you are a human being in this world.
Azhar was very well behaved on the field. Would you suggest him as a role model for your kids??
Just the fact that you use some uncouth language does not mean you are a bad person.

 

[viktor]

India have been playing cricket for more than 60 years and you have come up with 3 examples at the max. HOw many can you come up with for another team? That is the point. Plus, in the heat of the battle of a competitive sport with a large backing like cricket, players can and WILL lose their cool sometimes in the heat of the battle. The incidents you talk about fall under that category. I am almost 100% sure that India only went into sledging in a big way since Ganguly took over. And even then, most of the time, the Indians have followed a "give back what you get" principle. There have been exceptions like Harbhajan and a few others, but generally, the Indians are rather well behaved on the field. And I am almost sure that the Indians don't indulge in as much personal abuse and insults as some of the other teams do. I suppose it is because of our culture where references to one's family is taken very very seriously.

If you are willing to give leeway to people losing their cool in a Ranji trophy game, why would you not extend the same latitude to people playing international cricket.

Now the point about most other than Harbhajan being well behaved. I remember a SL-Ind test in the 90s. Our current captain Dravid was then at silly point or forward short leg. It was a little late in the day and Ranatunga was batting. Dravid made it a point to stand such that his shadow was on the good length spot and then would move fractionally as the bowler bowled. That is worse IMO than sledging, disturbing the batsmen just as he is about to face the ball. There might not have been instituionalized sledging in India but our players always tried to take every advantage they could and that is how it should be.

I dunno if I said this before but up north, such expletives as MC, BC are common place and used infact as terms of endearment (mai-yo-ve, anybody from Punjab, Delhi, SJS, may be??). So please do not generalize claims about our culture.

 

[viktor]

Well, then go rent the video, and watch the game, you will hear the sound as well, if it is so hard to believe. You can clearly hear Slater's preachings through the stump mike.

I thought you were the one providing the evidence. Now you want me to do your work for you?

 

[honestbharani]

Kid's parents don't have to have played cricket to be good parents. Why is it that kids are assumed to be totally mindless? You try to be like your heroes, but you still know what's right or wrong surely. If you don't, it's not the fault of the sportspeople.

Look, there is a reason why great sportsmen are referred to as "heroes" and "idols"... It is that simple. Why do you think Sehwag plays in a similar manner to Sachin, atleast with his drives and helmets? Why do you think Brooke Walker had the same action and approach to the crease as Shane Warne? Kids who watch cricket are at an impressionable age and my point is the blokes who indulge in personal abuse and insults on the cricket field are sending signals that it is OK in cricket, when it clearly isn't and shouldn't be.

You said they SHOULD know it is wrong, but how will they know it is wrong when they see their favourite players do it on the field almost all the time and NOT get punished for it?

 

[honestbharani]

No, I don't get it.There always are responsibilities by virtue of the fact that you are a human being in this world.
Azhar was very well behaved on the field. Would you suggest him as a role model for your kids??
Just the fact that you use some uncouth language does not mean you are a bad person.

ON the field, Azhar was a great example. As long as the kids understand what he did OFF the field in the last couple of years of his career was wrong, I don't have a problem with it. Plus, I am talking about kids being impressed mainly by things on the field here. Off the field, almost everyone has a problem. And kids these days mostly realize that what happens off the field is the personal matter of the players concerned. McGrath is a wonderful bloke off the field, from all accounts. But do you think the kid who tried to imitate him in my school knew or cared about that? He was only concerned with what McGrath did ON the field of play.

 

[Sanz]

I thought you were the one providing the evidence. Now you want me to do your work for you?

??? where did I say that I was going to post the evidence ? Anyways Since I am not going to post the video for the obvious reason, let's ignore that it ever happened.

Actually it is my mistake, this is what actually happened. Dravid was about to walk but Michael Slater went to him and stopped him, saying the catch wasn't clean. Dravid insisted that it was indeed a clean catch and continued walking. Slater clearly frustrated to so Dravid depart, requested/pleaded his case with the on field umpire saying that he didn't catch the ball clearly. After a lot of request and pleadings..Dravid finally decided to stay. As usual media blew the whole thing out of proportion, and Slater once again was the victim.

Dravid and most importantly Cricket Fans who watched this display, to this day fondly recollect that incident as the highlight of their lifetime cricket playing/watching. Michael Slater will always be remembered for his honesty, politeness and sporting display on that eventful day in Mumbai.

 

[honestbharani]

If you are willing to give leeway to people losing their cool in a Ranji trophy game, why would you not extend the same latitude to people playing international cricket.

Now the point about most other than Harbhajan being well behaved. I remember a SL-Ind test in the 90s. Our current captain Dravid was then at silly point or forward short leg. It was a little late in the day and Ranatunga was batting. Dravid made it a point to stand such that his shadow was on the good length spot and then would move fractionally as the bowler bowled. That is worse IMO than sledging, disturbing the batsmen just as he is about to face the ball. There might not have been instituionalized sledging in India but our players always tried to take every advantage they could and that is how it should be.

I dunno if I said this before but up north, such expletives as MC, BC are common place and used infact as terms of endearment (mai-yo-ve, anybody from Punjab, Delhi, SJS, may be??). So please do not generalize claims about our culture.

I am not generalizing anything. I am saying stuff based on what I have seen. The incident you referred to about DRavid, I am not even sure when it happened. Nobody seemed to have made a big issue out of it, and considering that it was Ranatunga who was involved (and he never let opportunities to blow issues to bigger proportions out of his hand) I don't think it was all that serious. And generally, from the way RD has played throughout his career, I refuse to believe he would do something as silly and underhanded as that. I have seen Team India play for more than 15 years now and they have been amongst the best behaved bunch. Except Harbhajan and Zaheer, the other bowlers almost never sledge and most guys in the side follow the "only sledge back when someone sledges us" rule, something Sourav accepted publicly during his stint as captain. BTW, whenever one talks about culture of a particular country or region, there is always a degree of GENERALIZATION involved. It is obvious that there has been and will be exceptions.

 

[honestbharani]

I apologize to the mods and James and other CW staff. I won't by pass the filter anymore. The thing is in some other forums that I visit, these words are actually not banned and I don't like to type out the words in full (juz a superstition), I generally type it this way. Sorry again.

 

[Ikki]

ON the field, Azhar was a great example. As long as the kids understand what he did OFF the field in the last couple of years of his career was wrong, I don't have a problem with it. Plus, I am talking about kids being impressed mainly by things on the field here. Off the field, almost everyone has a problem. And kids these days mostly realize that what happens off the field is the personal matter of the players concerned. McGrath is a wonderful bloke off the field, from all accounts. But do you think the kid who tried to imitate him in my school knew or cared about that? He was only concerned with what McGrath did ON the field of play.

In all fairness, if a kid who is so smitten with a player so as to copy their style of batting/bowling what makes you think they wouldn't keep track of their idol's personal lives? I know for one I did. Not in an obsessive manner, but I knew what was going on when I was at an impressionable age, perhaps.

 

[viktor]

??? where did I say that I was going to post the evidence ? Anyways Since I am not going to post the video for the obvious reason, let's ignore that it ever happened.

Actually it is my mistake, this is what actually happened. Dravid was about to walk but Michael Slater went to him and stopped him, saying the catch wasn't clean. Dravid insisted that it was indeed a clean catch and continued walking. Slater clearly frustrated to so Dravid depart, requested/pleaded his case with the on field umpire saying that he didn't catch the ball clearly. After a lot of request and pleadings..Dravid finally decided to stay. As usual media blew the whole thing out of proportion, and Slater once again was the victim.

Dravid and most importantly Cricket Fans who watched this display, to this day fondly recollect that incident as the highlight of their lifetime cricket playing/watching. Michael Slater will always be remembered for his honesty, politeness and sporting display on that eventful day in Mumbai.

I get your point but I would prefer it if you didn't post pointless pictures.(nice alliteration there, even if I do say so myself.)

 

[viktor]

I am not generalizing anything. I am saying stuff based on what I have seen. The incident you referred to about DRavid, I am not even sure when it happened. Nobody seemed to have made a big issue out of it, and considering that it was Ranatunga who was involved (and he never let opportunities to blow issues to bigger proportions out of his hand) I don't think it was all that serious. And generally, from the way RD has played throughout his career, I refuse to believe he would do something as silly and underhanded as that. I have seen Team India play for more than 15 years now and they have been amongst the best behaved bunch. Except Harbhajan and Zaheer, the other bowlers almost never sledge and most guys in the side follow the "only sledge back when someone sledges us" rule, something Sourav accepted publicly during his stint as captain. BTW, whenever one talks about culture of a particular country or region, there is always a degree of GENERALIZATION involved. It is obvious that there has been and will be exceptions.

The incident did happen. Agree that Ranatunga might have tried to derive some mileage out of it.
Your post though is a perfect example of how perception works.
You would believe Dravid wouldn't do something this underhanded even though you have no evidence to back it up, based only on his reputation. Let me remind you, this is the time before he had made his reputation.
Also, whats with the caps on GENERALIZATION? Did I spell it wrong?Or were you attempting to make some point about it that I am missing?

 

[C_C]

I don't really see the need to reduce the nastyness in the game.

Ummm. I do. I am not fond of nasty ( except maybe certain bedroom variations ).

Provided that the bad stuff that goes on stays on the field, and that it doesn't cross the line into physical violence or anything else (such as players yelling abuse at one another) that becomes too severe, then it's just part of competitive sport. Let's not forget that the people who play cricket are adults and professionals, and I'm pretty sure they can handle it. If you're worried about kids at home hearing naughty words, turn down the stump mics.

I am sorry but i do not see it as a part of competetive sport. No sport should be allowed to progress to such levels of competetiveness that people forget the central objective : that their records mean nothing. They only exist to entertain the masses.
It doesnt kill them to be courteous. Infact, i demand that as a job pre-requisite.

Interestingly, that's exactly what Michael Hussey said today. He said that the players in the second test weren't aware that the mics were being turned up louder than normal, and said it was a bad idea as there are things said on the cricket pitch that would be inappropriate for young viewers.

Maybe someone should teach Hussey that perhaps the best answer is to shut their collective yaps on the pitch or say things that are passable without an R or X rating ?
I still dont get it - why are you defending nastyness ?

 

[C_C]

The majority of the stuff that goes on verbally on the cricket field falls well short of abuse,

No it does not by most people's standards and it certainly doesnt in my standards.
it might by ultra-aggressive Aussie standards but it isnt by subcontinental standard.

 

[luckyeddie]

No it does not by most people's standards and it certainly doesnt in my standards.
it might by ultra-aggressive Aussie standards but it isnt by subcontinental standard.

What about by typical seal-clubber standards?

(just introducing another country in a rhetorical anti-Canadian banter sort of way)