Andre Nel and sledging

[C_C]

Do you know, I didn't hear one sledge growing up watching cricket. Didn't stop me from getting into fights and swearing like bilio on the playing fields of school though. Children behave in this manner becuase it's part of adolesence, not because Glenn McGrath calls someone a ****ing *****r.

Look, what holds true for you is not true for everyone.
Kids learn in ALL ways possible. Especially when it comes to social interactions and behaviour, most of it is learnt through observation ( and what better source than a celebrity on tv). Why do you think kids started dressing like George Harrison or Gary Sobers(in West Indies) or Amitabh Bacchan (In India) ? A media figure is often a role model for kids when it comes to determining what is acceptable behaviour and what isnt. Its the responsibility that comes with the job. I know the players didnt ask for it, but it comes with the job.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Are you willing to compromise by wearing a grey merkin?

Not on my head, no...

especially if it's pre-owned.

 

[C_C]

Do you know, I didn't hear one sledge growing up watching cricket. Didn't stop me from getting into fights and swearing like bilio on the playing fields of school though. Children behave in this manner becuase it's part of adolesence, not because Glenn McGrath calls someone a ****ing *****r.

Look, what holds true for you is not true for everyone.
Kids learn in ALL ways possible. Especially when it comes to social interactions and behaviour, most of it is learnt through observation ( and what better source than a celebrity on tv). Why do you think kids started dressing like George Harrison or Gary Sobers(in West Indies) or Amitabh Bacchan (In India) ?Why are there so many teeny boppers trying to be Brittney Spears on the streets ? Why are there so many anime DragonballZ type clones walkin around the mall these days ?
A media figure is often a role model for kids when it comes to determining what is acceptable behaviour and what isnt. Its the responsibility that comes with the job. I know the players didnt ask for it, but it comes with the job.

This censorship endorsment is far too right-wing for my liking.

!!!!!

Look- i am a centre-left kinda guy who makes occasional huge forays into the left field.
Call me socialist and i will agree with certain reservations.
Call me a commie and i will grumble.
A Lenninist or further is pushing it a bit.
But please dont associate me with the nutty right wing.

 

[Son Of Coco]

In your opinion C_C. My view, and the majority (not always right of course, 18 years of Thatcher proves that. Actually no 'cos of first past the post, ahhh whatever) on this topic seem to concur, is that this is a trifling matter.

Do you know, I didn't hear one sledge growing up watching cricket. Didn't stop me from getting into fights and swearing like bilio on the playing fields of school though. Children behave in this manner because it's part of adolesence, not because Glenn McGrath calls someone a ****ing *****r.

This censorship endorsment is far too right-wing for my liking.

That's right. In the end the players get their just desserts...*boom tish*

 

[luckyeddie]

That's right. In the end the players get their just desserts...*boom tish*

Inzy gets everyone's just desserts.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Look, what holds true for you is not true for everyone.
Kids learn in ALL ways possible. Especially when it comes to social interactions and behaviour, most of it is learnt through observation ( and what better source than a celebrity on tv). Why do you think kids started dressing like George Harrison or Gary Sobers(in West Indies) or Amitabh Bacchan (In India) ? A media figure is often a role model for kids when it comes to determining what is acceptable behaviour and what isnt. Its the responsibility that comes with the job. I know the players didnt ask for it, but it comes with the job.



!!!!!

Look- i am a centre-left kinda guy who makes occasional huge forays into the left field.
Call me socialist and i will agree with certain reservations.
Call me a commie and i will grumble.
A Lenninist or further is pushing it a bit.
But please dont associate me with the nutty right wing.

I apologise (for the record I'm damn near anarchist stage these days, so disilushioned with government and the myth that is "democracy") but these views can come across as a typical Daily Mail headline at times.

Anyway we shall agree to disagree. As I said before one cannot expect men to be perfect on the field, at home or anywhere, and if parents allow their kids to use celebrities as role-models they need a stern talking to; perhaps we're both idealists but with a differing agenda.

 

[Ikki]

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/showthread.php?p=764765#post764765

Enjoy.

 

[C_C]

and if parents allow their kids to use celebrities as role-models they need a stern talking to

My parents strongly disapproved of me seeing the ' choli ke picchey kya hai' routine ( basically a pretty suggestive song with pretty sensuous stuff in the video) when i was 12 years or so old.
So i bunked class, skipped lunch, used lunch money and caught the matinee show.
Welcome to the world of kids.
They arnt stupid. Nowhere stupid enough to be puppets of their parents...well..atleast many arnt...

Its just it is.
Which is why a public figure carries certain responsibilities on field.

 

[Son Of Coco]

My parents strongly disapproved of me seeing the ' choli ke picchey kya hai' routine ( basically a pretty suggestive song with pretty sensuous stuff in the video) when i was 12 years or so old.
So i bunked class, skipped lunch, used lunch money and caught the matinee show.
Welcome to the world of kids.
They arnt stupid. Nowhere stupid enough to be puppets of their parents...well..atleast many arnt...

Its just it is.
Which is why a public figure carries certain responsibilities on field.

Why then are they assumed to be stupid enough to be puppets of a sports person?

 

[C_C]

Why then are they assumed to be stupid enough to be puppets of a sports person?

Umm.
There is a huge difference between an order ( you aint gonna watch that because that isnt good for you) akin to what parents give their kids and a perception of acceptance. ( he said this/did this-->people liked it -->so thats a good thing...or he said this--->seemed pretty bad!-->no one reacted badly though--->so not a bad thing)

I would like an explanation for kids( pre-teens, early teens) aping film stars, sports personalities, musicians, etc. in dressing style, sometime even talking style if they dont use celebrity figures as role models.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I guess Tom and some other guys here should really get some stick for being uncouth with their sigs then, eh ?

I can assure you that I like my signature no more than anyone else - it is the result of a bet.

 

[Armadillo]

I can assure you that I like my signature no more than anyone else - it is the result of a bet.

And what a stupid bet it was! How could you think that Chelsea weren't going to win the premiership at that stage in the season.

 

[Tom Halsey]

And what a stupid bet it was! How could you think that Chelsea weren't going to win the premiership at that stage in the season.

I bet it in 2004. When it looked like Arsenal were running away with it...

 

[Son Of Coco]

Umm.
There is a huge difference between an order ( you aint gonna watch that because that isnt good for you) akin to what parents give their kids and a perception of acceptance. ( he said this/did this-->people liked it -->so thats a good thing...or he said this--->seemed pretty bad!-->no one reacted badly though--->so not a bad thing)

I would like an explanation for kids( pre-teens, early teens) aping film stars, sports personalities, musicians, etc. in dressing style, sometime even talking style if they dont use celebrity figures as role models.

Ahh
As far as I see it, parents should be the best role model their kid has, not just someone seen to be giving orders. I think you're being a bit overly simplistic as far as how kids usually react to outside stimulus.

Copying film stars etc is generally referred to as peer pressure. They're not really copying the stars though I suspect, but following what is considered cool amongst the society they are in. Surely, if a child is equipped to make sensible decisions then it doesn't matter what they see or hear elsewhere. I never said children don't use sports stars as role models...

 

[honestbharani]

Well I can't speak for others, but I don't mean to imply that it HAS to be or it SHOULD be in the game. I'm saying, as the nature of competitive sports is, these things are common place. Okay, some say Tennis, in Tennis there are many comments after the game that affect the two people's duel's during the game. E.g. Hingis and Kournikova joking that Mauresmo is a man. Another, Coria saying that Hewitt's "Come on's!" are unsportsmanlike YET he spat toward him in the game. I say, as long as it's witty, in some ways messing with the other player's concentration (e.g. Warne calling Smith a Young'n at the start of every bowl Symonds did), EVEN with curse words it's okay.

For me, some here are being really skewed. This is the world, it isn't perfect. Even taking sledging out there, other little mediums will be found to take shots at each other and possible worse ones. A comment here and there is okay by me. They're grown men, and I was thinking some here are as well. I think the situation as it is, is fine. If anything really out the ordinary is said/done I'm faithful (yes can you believe it?) that the ICC will take order.

It is my position as well. Like I said, I honestly don't think insults about a players' abilities itself is something that is necessary. But I understand that these things can happen in the heat of the moment in a competitive sport. I am cool with that as long as the umpires and the players themselves keep it under reasonable control. But I hate personal insults being thrown in. As you said, it may never be properly monitored but the ICC should definitely try. At the very least, the ICC should stop players from calling one of their fellow players a "coward or a teller" if the guy goes to the officials about some guys in the field personally abusing and insulting him.

 

[honestbharani]

Isn't it a little hypocritical? I personally would prefer a player who isn't averse to saying a few words on the pitch but is a decent human being off it.
As to the kids being influenced, with the media now a days, what the players do off the field is almost as well known as what they do on it.

You don't get it, do you? When you are in the limelight of mainstream media AND representing your country, there are certain responsibilities and therefore, certain things that you simply CANNOT do. It is like a price that has to be paid for being talented in a sport and famous (and obviously RICH).

 

[honestbharani]

Yes I agree, but the 2nd example is not sledging. It is just abuse.

The first example is sledging, and is acceptable.

I suppose we just have different ways of interpreting the word "sledging" then. But I do think we are in agreement about what is acceptable and what isn't on the cricket pitch regarding sledging and abuses.

 

[honestbharani]

Which former players?

Maninder Singh and Prabhakar, who indulged in a street fight in the Ranji trophy?? or are you referring to Vengsarkar who sledged Marshall so much on his first tour that he never forgave him?? I'm sure you would find a number of such instances in Ranji cricket.
There was also a Raman Lamba-Rashid Patel incident....

India have been playing cricket for more than 60 years and you have come up with 3 examples at the max. HOw many can you come up with for another team? That is the point. Plus, in the heat of the battle of a competitive sport with a large backing like cricket, players can and WILL lose their cool sometimes in the heat of the battle. The incidents you talk about fall under that category. I am almost 100% sure that India only went into sledging in a big way since Ganguly took over. And even then, most of the time, the Indians have followed a "give back what you get" principle. There have been exceptions like Harbhajan and a few others, but generally, the Indians are rather well behaved on the field. And I am almost sure that the Indians don't indulge in as much personal abuse and insults as some of the other teams do. I suppose it is because of our culture where references to one's family is taken very very seriously.

 

[honestbharani]

And you're defining things as you will. I think the biggest problem here is that sledging means different things to different people. People that are defending sledging on here aren't generally defending abuse. To you sledging means abuse so you think they are. Maybe a common definition should be arrived at first.

yeah, but I think many of the guys here have generally agreed that while insulting a guy's cricketing abilities and stuff like that is ok, but personal insults are not on. That has been my point all along. NO matter how we define sledging, you will see that there is some sort of an agreement being reached on what stuff are acceptable on the field.

 

[honestbharani]

I can't find the post to quote, but posters talking about setting an example to kids...kids have parents. If they set a good enough example it won't matter what some bloke on a sports field says. The comment did set off the violins though...let's all band together and start 'Child Aid 2006' - we can raise money to send a set of earmuffs to every child in the world so they never hear a naughty word.

Dude, kids have parents, sure. But not all parents PLAY cricket. Out on the field, as a youngster, my aim was to replicate my heroes... Jonty Rhodes, Sachin Tendulkar, Brian Lara... One of my mates was a tall lad who bowled pretty quick. He always emulated Ambrose. You don't expect kids to play cricket the way their parents played, do you? Out on the field, almost ALL kids will look to emulate their heroes. And I know that in my school team (which I coached during my vacation last year) one of the young boy thinks it is mandatory for him to tell batsmen that "he is in the side because he f*cks his captain"... Guess who his hero was. A certain tall Australian all time great bowler. To brush off such things as responsible behaviour in front of the camera when you are representing your country is ignorance of the highest order.