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All time ODI XI

Bolo.

International Debutant
Yeah I agree with this. Klusener was a real frontline bowler, he just wasn't that good. I think at this imaginary higher level we're creating he would effectively be a part-timer, but bowlers who were already part-timers in their eras would just be total non-bowlers.
If you aren't playing an extra guy who can bowl like Sanath or Watson, you probably give Klusener around 6.5-7 overs on average in a 50 over innings, with Viv getting most of the rest and an odd over for Sachin for variety. With a lot of innings not going to 50 overs, and wanting to get a lot out of the ATGs, he probably only gets about 5 overs a match in an ATG team, so well into part-timer territory.
 

Pap Finn Keighl

International Debutant
Klusener averaged nearly 20 points ahead of Kapil.
Kapil averaged 28 while striking at 105 in a 9 year strech ( Klusner career length ) which was better than the likes of Desilva, Gower, Azhar.. Etc. Kapil in 80s was a top 15 batsman in the world if you check rankings.. In fact he was the highest ranked batsman for India.
28 at 105 in 80s is comparable to not out boosted 40 at 90 in Klusner era.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I kind of like the idea of Kapil batting 7 in this team but his bowling just wasn't in the league of Pollock, Imran or Flintoff in the format unfortunately.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
It can be argued that Kapil was better ODI bowler than Imran. In my spreadsheet (which is the gold standard :cool:), Kapil is #20 and Imran #21 in the all time list. Without longevity points, Imran will be farther behind. Kapil was more economical over his entire career, and without checking he must have bowled more overs per match.
 
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Sunil1z

First Class Debutant
Imran who was never ranked in top 3 in ICC ODI ranking is now superior to Kapil who was ranked no.1 as a bowler in 80s . You learn new thing on CW everyday .
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Kapil averaged 28 while striking at 105 in a 9 year strech ( Klusner career length ) which was better than the likes of Desilva, Gower, Azhar.. Etc. Kapil in 80s was a top 15 batsman in the world if you check rankings.. In fact he was the highest ranked batsman for India.
28 at 105 in 80s is comparable to not out boosted 40 at 90 in Klusner era.
Wish Kapil was as good as Klusener at staying not out. Would have actually won more games.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Imran who was never ranked in top 3 in ICC ODI ranking is now superior to Kapil who was ranked no.1 as a bowler in 80s . You learn new thing on CW everyday .
Yeah I may have been stretching it with Imran now that I've checked but Pollock and Flintoff were both much better IMO. Their economy rates for their eras are out of this world.
 

Socerer 01

First Class Debutant
Thank you. Buried in your analysis is the fact that Imran is a better bat, just not more 'revolutionary'.

Also at their respective bowling peaks Imran was at least a slightly better bowler, even by your figures. Though I would argue he was notably better.

And Imran was better at maintaining batting form while in his bowling peaks, which you didn't reference.

Based on the above, to me he is clearly better as an all-rounder than Kapil. To bat well in the top six while being a worldclass opening bowler in ODIs is a great achievement that you can acknowledge, just like how Kapil was unusually destructive, though not that productive, down the order for his time.

The only thing debatable is who was a better lower order bat, which you claim is Kapil based on his high SR, which is fine.
[/QUOTE]

So every opinion you state must be taken as fact even when the numbers clearly point out that the differences aren’t big like Imran vs Kapil as bowlers

but everything else others state like Kapil being a better hitter down the order with the numbers being overwhelmingly in his favour is debatable to you

yeah nah piss off and stop being a wanker
 

Sunil1z

First Class Debutant
Yeah I may have been stretching it with Imran now that I've checked but Pollock and Flintoff were both much better IMO. Their economy rates for their eras are out of this world.
Pollock was definitely, Flintoff no.
Kapil was marginally better than Flintoff .However as an all rounder he is comparable to Kapil because he was superior batsman
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Why do so many people on CW want to pick opening bowlers as 5th bowlers? It doesn't make sense to me.
Fifth bowling isn't really a skill, it just means you aren't as good as the first four bowlers. Middle overs bowling can be a specialist skill, but most of the players we're suggesting did plenty of it - they didn't just bowl 7 up front and then 3 at the death every game.

Most of the fifth bowlers in ODIs bowl in the first 15 overs or are main spinners when they play domestic cricket. The level of cricket we're creating is probably bigger than that jump.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Pollock was definitely, Flintoff no.
Kapil was marginally better than Flintoff .However as an all rounder he is comparable to Kapil because he was superior batsman
I reckon Flintoff's probably the most under-rated ODI bowler ever. Even if he batted like McGrath I'd be thinking about him as an option in my Second XI.
 

Socerer 01

First Class Debutant
I kind of like the idea of Kapil batting 7 in this team but his bowling just wasn't in the league of Pollock, Imran or Flintoff in the format unfortunately.
Imran and Kapil aren’t really that different as ODI bowlers but I’ll give you Flintoff and Pollock. Both terribly underrated as ODI bowlers especially Flintoff who played for a crap England odi side
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Imran and Kapil aren’t really that different as ODI bowlers but I’ll give you Flintoff and Pollock. Both terribly underrated as ODI bowlers especially Flintoff who played for a crap England odi side
Yeah I've retracted my point about Imran. I was wrong about that one.
 

Socerer 01

First Class Debutant
I reckon Flintoff's probably the most under-rated ODI bowler ever. Even if he batted like McGrath I'd be thinking about him as an option in my Second XI.
there is an argument to be made for Flintoff’s being underrated simply because his side was poor at this odi game
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
there is an argument to be made for Flintoff’s being underrated simply because his side was poor at this odi game
Yeah I think this along with the fact that he wasn't that great a bowler in Tests and the fact that his ridiculously awesome economy rate doesn't really stand out as much as it should because of the era he played in also combine to make people under-rate him as an ODI bowler.

He's probably over-rated as an ODI hitter though. He was awful whenever coming in with a few overs to go. Did well if he had time to build an innings, but it seems weird to try to bat him at 5 ahead of such better batsmen.
 

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