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Thread: English and Indian wicketkeeping debates

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    International Debutant Salamuddin's Avatar
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    English and Indian wicketkeeping debates

    Two questions:

    1) I've heard that James Foster of Essex is likely to be handed the gloves fior England's first test of the summer ? What about Chris Read - why has been totally forgotten without getting a fair go ?

    2) Who should don the gloves for India in the test matches in England this summer ? Dhoni or Karthik ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salamuddin View Post
    Two questions:

    1) I've heard that James Foster of Essex is likely to be handed the gloves fior England's first test of the summer ? What about Chris Read - why has been totally forgotten without getting a fair go ?

    2) Who should don the gloves for India in the test matches in England this summer ? Dhoni or Karthik ?
    1) because Read's proven to be ave.

    2) Dhoni - dynamic batsman
    Last edited by Fiery; 17-02-2007 at 04:03 AM.

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    International Debutant Salamuddin's Avatar
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    Personally, I reckon Read should be given the seven tests at home this summer and if he doesn't shape up, look at Foster for the SRi Lanka tour.

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    International Debutant Salamuddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery View Post
    1) because Read's proven to be ave.

    2) Dhoni - dynamic


    Read never got the umpteen chances that Geraint got .......Read's quality as a keeper and I think better than Geraint with the bat


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    Quote Originally Posted by Salamuddin View Post
    Read never got the umpteen chances that Geraint got .......Read's quality as a keeper and I think better than Geraint with the bat
    I know. It's a shame England haven't been able to produce a decent keeper since Alan Knott, Alec Stewart was a good player but it's been all downhill since then

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    I don't see what the big deal with the Indian wicket keeping issue is, surely there is only the one logical choice and that is Mahendra Singh Dhoni. I think that almost everyone on CW will agree his ability with the gloves has come on a long way since he first started playing and is now fairly consistent and able behind the stumps. With the willow he has been pretty good aswell, so there should be no reason to be toying with ideas of dropping him in favour of Karthik. Don't even get me started on why Karthik is playing as a pure batsman.
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    International Debutant Salamuddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perm View Post
    I don't see what the big deal with the Indian wicket keeping issue is, surely there is only the one logical choice and that is Mahendra Singh Dhoni. I think that almost everyone on CW will agree his ability with the gloves has come on a long way since he first started playing and is now fairly consistent and able behind the stumps. With the willow he has been pretty good aswell, so there should be no reason to be toying with ideas of dropping him in favour of Karthik. Don't even get me started on why Karthik is playing as a pure batsman.
    Dhoni has improved considerably as a keeper but its pretty obvious every team wants a keeper that can bat well in addition.

    Dhoni's a good ODI batsman but he's had considerably less success batting wise in tests - so, again is Karthik the better test match option ? I think its a perfectly reasonable question.

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    International Coach adharcric's Avatar
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    Karthik is definitely a good shout for the test side.

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    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salamuddin View Post
    Read never got the umpteen chances that Geraint got .......Read's quality as a keeper and I think better than Geraint with the bat
    The point being, is that neither are good enough. No point reinforcing failure.

    Other options must be looked at and these guys jettisoned.

    Have to remember that Jack Russell was twice the batsman that either of these guys are (as well as being a superior keeper) and he was dropped due to lack of batting.

    To continue with Read or Jones is to waste more time and resources of projects doomed to fail.

    Best bet is strike a line through the Jones/Read era and forge ahead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salamuddin View Post
    Dhoni has improved considerably as a keeper but its pretty obvious every team wants a keeper that can bat well in addition.

    Dhoni's a good ODI batsman but he's had considerably less success batting wise in tests - so, again is Karthik the better test match option ? I think its a perfectly reasonable question.
    Quote Originally Posted by adharcric View Post
    Karthik is definitely a good shout for the test side.
    But what has Karthik done to deserve a place in the Test side ahead of Dhoni? From my point of view he has been fairly average in the ODI's he has played so far while Dhoni has the advantage of being the incumbent keeper for the limited overs game. I'm not a big fan of having different wicket keepers for the different formats, unless the guy playing Test's can't strike the ball well enough for ODI's or the ODI guy can't play a patient innings in a Test.

    In my eyes Dhoni has matured over the last while or so and played quite well in South Africa without getting a big score, certainly his form hasn't been poor enough to be dropped and Karthik hardly has a mountain of runs behind him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    The point being, is that neither are good enough. No point reinforcing failure.

    Other options must be looked at and these guys jettisoned.

    Have to remember that Jack Russell was twice the batsman that either of these guys are (as well as being a superior keeper) and he was dropped due to lack of batting.

    To continue with Read or Jones is to waste more time and resources of projects doomed to fail.

    Best bet is strike a line through the Jones/Read period and forge ahead.

    Sorry Goughy I disagree wrt Read. The guy batted reasonabaly well against Pakistan and only got two tests against Australia. He was not given an extended run to prove himself -- that is what I think The Engand selectors should give him - if he is not good enough after 7 tests against WI and India at home, then look at someone else by all means.
    Last edited by Salamuddin; 17-02-2007 at 04:20 AM.

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    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salamuddin View Post
    Sorry Goughy I disagree wrt Read. The guy batted reasonabaly well against Pakistan and only got two tests against Australia. He was not given an extended run to prove himself -- that is what I think The Engand selectors should give him - if he is enough good enough after 7 tests against WI and India at home, then look at someone else by all means.
    Fair enough.

    However, if he plays this in English summer, I will guarantee his failure. Ive seen easily enough to know he isnt good enough and that wasting more time is folly.

    Also a player as weak as Read with the bat hurts team balance and compostition

    However, for Englands sake, I hope you are right and I am wrong.

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    International Debutant Salamuddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    Fair enough.

    However, if he plays this in English summer, I will guarantee his failure. Ive seen easily enough to know he isnt good enough and that wasting more time is folly.

    Also a player as weak as Read with the bat hurts team balance and compostition

    However, for Englands sake, I hope you are right and I am wrong.
    Goughy, Are you a Level 2 coach or something ?

    Who do you want to see don the gloves ? Foster, Pothas, Davies or someone else ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perm View Post
    But what has Karthik done to deserve a place in the Test side ahead of Dhoni? From my point of view he has been fairly average in the ODI's he has played so far while Dhoni has the advantage of being the incumbent keeper for the limited overs game. I'm not a big fan of having different wicket keepers for the different formats, unless the guy playing Test's can't strike the ball well enough for ODI's or the ODI guy can't play a patient innings in a Test.

    In my eyes Dhoni has matured over the last while or so and played quite well in South Africa without getting a big score, certainly his form hasn't been poor enough to be dropped and Karthik hardly has a mountain of runs behind him.
    Dhoni has certainly improved considerably in test cricket, but Karthik is better behind the stumps and batted very well in his limited opportunities in South Africa. That said, Dhoni should probably get the 1st test in England.

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    In the one Test match he did play he performed very creditibly, especially opening the batting in the first innings which we all know is an issue for Indian cricket. Dhoni didn't do so well in the 1st Test but he batted very well at Kingsmead, formed the important partnership with Sreesanth in the 1st innings and in the 2nd he batted well with the tail chasing an impossible target by the time he got to the crease. After 15 Test matches he averages 30.70 aswell as taking 40 catches and 9 stumpings, it's a good start to his career and I would certainly have him in my side over Dinesh Karthik at the moment.

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