Greatest all-rounder pre-Sobers

To be, or not to be? That is the question.

Wait, no...

Who was the greatest all-rounder pre-Sobers? Now THAT is the question.

What with the influx of voting/ranking/comparison threads that have been gracing the forum throughout the past month or so, I thought I'd chime in with yet another genuinely valid question to go along with them. However, this thread will be formatted a little differently.

Principally, this will be a countdown of the greatest 48 all-rounders ever to grace the cricket field pre Sir Garfield Sobers. I've got a fair few old-school cricket books laying around at home, so I figure once the exercise is done I'll scan a few pictures and compose a little write up on each player, featuring quotes from these books (rather than just regurgitating stats and cricinfo articles). And yes, there's plenty of old-fashioned romanticism to be found within said books.

Firstly, I'll post a list of the 48 contenders. This list is open for debate, however, pretty much anyone who was of note is featured. Once that's settled the exercise will begin.

The 48 players on the final list will be randomised & split into six 'pots', containing eight players each. Each player will be then ranked by the CW populi on the merits of their two primary disciplines - batting & bowling - one pot at a time (eight players per pot). Both tests & FC matches should be considered when voting. Votes for batting & bowling will be weighted evenly. The two players which attain the most points from the rankings will progress to the 'Golden Pot' (top 12), whereupon the final ranking phase will begin.

THE initial SHORTLIST

Gubby Allen
Lala Amarnath
Warwick Armstrong
Trevor Bailey
Billy Bates
Billy Barnes
Richie Benaud
Len Braund
Johnny Briggs
Denis Compton
Learie Constantine
Alan Davidson
Bill Edrich
Aubrey Faulkner
Frank Foster
George Giffen
John Goddard
Gerry Gomez
WG Grace
Jack Gregory
Wally Hammond
Tom Hayward
Vijay Hazare
George Hirst
Stanley Jackson
Gilbert Jessop
Abdul Kardar
Charles Kelleway
Bart King
Ray Lindwall
Charles Macartney
Vinoo Mankad
Stan McCabe
Colin McCool
Keith Miller
Bruce Mitchell
Monty Noble
Dave Nourse
Dattu Phadkar
John Reid
Wilfred Rhodes
Jimmy Sinclair
Allan Steel
Maurice Tate
Hugh Trumble
Polly Umrigar
Frank Woolley
Frank Worrell

Unlucky: Dick Barlow, Freddie Brown, Brian Close, Jack Crawford, Johnny Douglas, Charlie Llewellyn, Sam Loxton, Billy Midwinter, CK Nayudu, Gulabrai Ramchand, Jack Ryder, Tip Snooke, Walter Robins, Clive van Ryneveld, Harry Trott, John Watkins, George Ulyett


If you feel there is a player who has been hard done by and deserves to be on the list, let me know. And also who you think should make way for them!

Hope to have some good discussion on this with everyone out there.

Miller, Gregory, Davidson, Benaud and Lindwall. Ironic we've hardly had any since.

Edit. Oh yeah ... WG.

Possibly include Frank Tarrant, Sammy Woods and Albert Trott - Alfred Mynn if you're interested in going back further?

I think CB Fry should be included

Fuller Pilch said:

I think CB Fry should be included

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In that case Max Woosnam should be a shoo in

Rhodes wasn't an all rounder.

Warwick Armstrong
Trevor Bailey
Richie Benaud
Learie Constantine
Alan Davidson
Aubrey Faulkner
Frank Foster
Gerry Gomez
WG Grace
Jack Gregory
Gilbert Jessop
Charles Macartney
Vinoo Mankad
Keith Miller
Monty Noble
Frank Woolley

From what I know, these are the major candidates, of whom Miller is the most all-roundery.

So so tough. Need to read into things more.

Jimmy Sinclair is often a player not spoken of much in SA cricket but is often in the books of the best players of all-time for SA.

Acrually fought on the British side in the Boer War.

Was the first player to score a 100 & take a 5-wicket haul in a test match and once scored a century off 79 balls against Australia. They say he generally scored his runs at 71/72 per hundred balls. Batting was obviously his 2nd string.

The most famous cricketing story about him was that he hit a 6 out of the Wanderers and it landed on the back of a train set for CT. They had to recover it in CT and kept it in the musuem at the Wanderers as it was classed the biggest 6 hit in test history

Have to ignore all the 19th century fellows because bowling figures are good for literally everyone who rolled their arm over. This applies to WG too but his batting might get him there.

George Ulyett should be considered. Also Charlie Turner seems to have done a fair bit of batting despite being known for his bowling.

fredfertang said:

Possibly include Frank Tarrant, Sammy Woods and Albert Trott - Alfred Mynn if you're interested in going back further?

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Tarrant, Woods & Albert Trott all have a good case. Anyone in the list you'd swap them out for?

As for Mynn, he's from too far back. Basically this will be from the overarm era onwards.

Miller is clearly the best IMO.

Denis Compton on account of the fact he also played for Arsenal.

Himannv said:

George Ulyett should be considered. Also Charlie Turner seems to have done a fair bit of batting despite being known for his bowling.

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Ulyett is currently in the unlucky pile. Anyone you think should come out for him?

jimmy101 said:

Ulyett is currently in the unlucky pile. Anyone you think should come out for him?

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Stan McCabe. Brilliant batsman but I'm not sure if he bowls well enough to be considered ahead of Ulyett.

harsh.ag said:

Rhodes wasn't an all rounder.

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He literally batted everywhere in Tests and bowled more overs than anyone ever

How is he not an Allrounder

***** said:

He literally batted everywhere in Tests and bowled more overs than anyone ever

How is he not an Allrounder

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Some argue he was never a true all-rounder because he was a bowler who batted, then for a while a batter who bowled, before becoming mainly a bowler again at the end of his career - did the double 16 times though, so sounds like an all-rounder to me

***** said:

He literally batted everywhere in Tests and bowled more overs than anyone ever

How is he not an Allrounder

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There wasn't much overlap between those two skills of his.

Can't think of any major omissions from the list.

The answer is Miller by the way.

I'm curious to see how people rank Aubrey Faulkner here. Could he be the best after Miller?

Himannv said:

Stan McCabe. Brilliant batsman but I'm not sure if he bowls well enough to be considered ahead of Ulyett.

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Fair call. We'll put it to a vote, anyone following the thread can feel free to weigh in on this one.

Ulyett: 1
McCabe: 0