Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 26
Like Tree10Likes

Thread: The RWC has the dumbest system for awarding match points

  1. #1
    International Coach Bahnz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Wigton Unzud
    Posts
    12,446

    The RWC has the dumbest system for awarding match points

    I'm not really a rugby follower, so can anyone tell me how the bonus point system for the world cup makes any sense?

    Ok, I can kinda at least understand the bonus point for scoring tries. Rugby can be a pretty turgid sport to watch, especially in world cups when teams tend to be ultra defensive, so providing an incentive to toss the ball around and go for tries is understandable. But the bonus point for finishing within 7 is beyond stupid. I can't think of any other major sports tournament where a team gets points for only just losing. You don't get a point in cricket for losing by 1 run. You don't get a point in the soccer World Cup for conceeding a match losing goal in injury time. It's fair to use that stuff to decide who advances at the end of the group stage, but having it actually influence the number of points a team takes out of a match?

    I bring this up now because I think it's totally rubbish that the points taken from this morning's upset results in Japan getting 4 points to SA's 2. Why on earth do SA deserve to take away half as many points as the team that beat them? It's utter rubbish, and could have serious implications for who advances at the end of pool play.
    Last edited by Bahnz; 19-09-2015 at 05:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    I can think of a list of Sydney Grade posters who would contribute a better average post than Bahnz.
    Maow like no one can hear you maowing.

  2. #2
    International 12th Man BackFootPunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,540
    Yeah I'm inclined to agree with you here. It does seem a bit farcical that SA end up with a couple of points which, along with likely bonus point victories over other teams in pool play, may well see them still finish top of their group. Theoretically, Japan could win their remaining three games and still finish behind SA because of bonus points.

    It's a tough one though, because if this result had gone the other way and Japan had lost in injury time (and scored another try during the game) you probably wouldn't hear many people grumbling about Japan getting 2 points to RSA's 5.
    Samuel_Vimes and Uppercut like this.

  3. #3
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    England
    Posts
    61,234
    In all the other competitions with a bonus point, I thought a team could only ever get 1 per game?

    That said, scoring 4 tries and losing is a very rare occurrence.
    marc71178 - President and founding member of AAAS - we don't only appreciate when he does well, but also when he's not quite so good!

    Anyone want to join the Society?

    Beware the evils of Kit-Kats - they're immoral apparently.

  4. #4
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Zinzan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    cover point
    Posts
    24,258
    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    In all the other competitions with a bonus point, I thought a team could only ever get 1 per game?

    That said, scoring 4 tries and losing is a very rare occurrence.
    Yeah, most of the Super rugby/Tri-nations tournaments in NZ overs the years has such a points system. 1 for scoring 4 or more tries and 1 for getting within 7 points.


  5. #5
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Samuel_Vimes's Avatar
    Defend Your Castle Champion! Monkey Diving Champion!
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    South Holland/North Zealand
    Posts
    25,566
    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    In all the other competitions with a bonus point, I thought a team could only ever get 1 per game?

    That said, scoring 4 tries and losing is a very rare occurrence.
    Sale got two bonus points here.
    A follower of the schools of Machiavelli, Bentham, Locke, Hobbes, Sutcliffe, Bradman, Lindwall, Miller, Hassett and Benaud
    Member of ESAS, JMAS, DMAS, FRAS and RTDAS

  6. #6
    International Coach
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    England
    Posts
    10,481
    Because it means teams keep playing even if they aren't going to win with 5-10 minutes to go. If you can get yourself a point by scoring a try late on teams will go for it, where as if you are 12 points down with 5 mins to go for e.g the result is in the bag so game could peter out.

  7. #7
    Cricket Web Staff Member Howe_zat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Top floor, bottom buzzer
    Posts
    26,864
    The 6N is the only rugby tournament that doesn't do this and it's annoying because every 6 nations tournament now comes down to whether someone beat Scotland by 20 points or 27 points 3 weeks ago.

    Bonus points system much more satisfying and has a positive impact on the games

    Also there are lots of other sports that do this, the county championship for example
    ripper868 and Uppercut like this.
    What if all the switches get stuck on 'destroy'?

  8. #8
    International Coach
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    England
    Posts
    10,481
    Also would you really be happy if Japan had not won that game and the Saffers got 5 points and Japan 0? Hardly would have been fair.

  9. #9
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
    Tournaments Won: 1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    .
    Posts
    27,151
    I think it's a great system. Only objection is that by making a try worth more than the equivalent points in penalties, it encourages cynical play- which is already one of the biggest problems with Union rules. But that only comes into play in very specific circumstances. Generally I really like it.

  10. #10
    International Coach hendrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    13,544
    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    I think it's a great system. Only objection is that by making a try worth more than the equivalent points in penalties, it encourages cynical play- which is already one of the biggest problems with Union rules. But that only comes into play in very specific circumstances. Generally I really like it.
    Generally think cynicism is well taken care of with the way the refs are happy to dish out yellow cards these days. Still issues I suppose but nothing compared to american sport, obviously.

  11. #11
    International Coach Bahnz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Wigton Unzud
    Posts
    12,446
    Quote Originally Posted by 91Jmay View Post
    Also would you really be happy if Japan had not won that game and the Saffers got 5 points and Japan 0? Hardly would have been fair.
    Um yes, perfectly happy and it would have been perfectly fair. Bonus points for losing participants is something that's fair for a primary school sports day, but has no place in a major international tournament.

    I also think that if your goal is to promote try-scoring rugby, then it would be more effective to change the ratio of points awarded for a penalty kick compared to a converted try (perhaps so that it's more in line with league's 2:6 ratio) than offering a bonus point for scoring some arbitrary number of them.

  12. #12
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Cribbertopia
    Posts
    52,127
    I instinctively hate any system which can give away different amounts of points for each game. I really think each game should be worth X points the system should merely determine how they are divvied up and not how many are actually awarded. If you want to give a bonus point for scoring a certain amount of tries, you really should be giving one for not conceding that same number so you don't end up with some games being worth X total and some games being worth X+1.

    As long as that's satisfied I'm usually pretty cool with any system. It's not satisfied here so I agree with Bahnz but not for his reasons.
    BackFootPunch and BeeGee like this.
    Rejecting 'analysis by checklist' and 'skill absolutism' since Dec '09
    'Stats' is not a synonym for 'Career Test Averages'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey Tucker
    People go into politics to change the world. That's a bad idea. The only good reason to go into politics is to sweep government away so that the world can change itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by GIMH View Post
    Freddie is the greatest cricketer ever so the fact these comparisons are being made means three things:

    1. Stokes is pretty good
    2. Jono is a ****
    3. Taxation is theft

  13. #13
    Cricket Web Staff Member Howe_zat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Top floor, bottom buzzer
    Posts
    26,864
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    I also think that if your goal is to promote try-scoring rugby, then it would be more effective to change the ratio of points awarded for a penalty kick compared to a converted try (perhaps so that it's more in line with league's 2:6 ratio) than offering a bonus point for scoring some arbitrary number of them.
    This is the classic #1 observation from someone who doesn't watch the sport.

    Reducing the value of penalties would lead to more cynical play and fewer tries being scored.

    How would you rather split teams that are on an equal number of wins? FTR there aren't enough pool matches for bonus points to override a win.
    Samuel_Vimes likes this.

  14. #14
    International 12th Man BackFootPunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,540
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    I instinctively hate any system which can give away different amounts of points for each game. I really think each game should be worth X points the system should merely determine how they are divvied up and not how many are actually awarded. If you want to give a bonus point for scoring a certain amount of tries, you really should be giving one for not conceding that same number so you don't end up with some games being worth X total and some games being worth X+1.

    As long as that's satisfied I'm usually pretty cool with any system. It's not satisfied here so I agree with Bahnz but not for his reasons.
    Yeah great point. I really like the idea of having x amount of points being available in a game, which would be more like what you get in most FC cricket comps these days. Make it a maximum of 6 possible points in a game, perhaps, as that way you could give three points to each team for a high-scoring draw.

  15. #15
    BARNES OUT dontcloseyoureyes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    CW BLACK
    Posts
    31,277
    I don't mind the idea of it, but I think it heavily favours the better teams. Better teams are more likely to lose by small margins and win by bigger margins, makes WC's much less interesting IMO.

    THE SEASONS BRING RELIEF. JUST LET ME LIVE AND DIE IN PEACE

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Points System
    By Hurricane in forum Site Discussion
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 17-08-2011, 04:30 AM
  2. The rules and points system:
    By marc71178 in forum Cricket Web Predictions League
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 12-07-2007, 10:57 PM
  3. Replies: 61
    Last Post: 19-11-2002, 02:14 AM
  4. Final Decision on 4 Day Points System
    By Blewy in forum World Club Cricket
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 30-10-2002, 11:56 PM
  5. **4 Day Points System**
    By Blewy in forum World Club Cricket
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 29-10-2002, 02:32 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •