Third Place Playoff : Wales vs Australia

[Hurricane]

I hope for Aussie's sake this is the end of his international career. he has had enough chances and I have never seen him play like he does at super 15 level.

[James]

Better performance from the Aussies tonight, but seriously, is there a worse goal kicker going around than that guy Hook.

[Mike5181]

He's supposedly rated quite highly as a goal kicker as well.

[Somerset]

Originally Posted by Hurricane

I hope for Aussie's sake this is the end of his international career. he has had enough chances and I have never seen him play like he does at super 15 level.

I highly doubt that'll be the last of Cooper at international level. Put aside the WC and for the majority of the year he performed better than Carter (admittedly DC struggled in Super Rugby with injury for a period). With due respect to Barnes, hes conventional but not outstanding when compared to Cooper, whos still only 23 after all. Perhaps Cooper is to Australian rugby what Sehwag is to Indian cricket - brilliant when hes on form but exposed when hes not. Also I'll point out that Cooper's comfortably the top "try assister" in the tournament.

[Somerset]

Originally Posted by James

Better performance from the Aussies tonight, but seriously, is there a worse goal kicker going around than that guy Hook.

I'm sure Stephen Donald could give him a run for his money. In seriousness, really surprised that Hook struggled so badly for goalkicking form; every other time I've seen him kick hes been pretty accurate.

[Somerset]

Originally Posted by Mike5181

You would think Wales would've been on the receiving end of a belting if Cooper didn't get injured. He actually looked threatening for once in this tournament.

Would've been different had Beale not blown his hamstring in the first 10 minutes too. I was a bit confused about the Welsh tactics - they finally worked out in the 80th minute that keeping ball in hand and attacking patiently eventually creates an overlap to score - as up until then I was hardly impressed at their efforts. I'd heard calls for Roberts to be named player of the tournament though he had his worst performance of the tournament which I imagine would put a stop to any more calls for him to receive that award.

[Mike5181]

Originally Posted by Somerset

Would've been different had Beale not blown his hamstring in the first 10 minutes too. I was a bit confused about the Welsh tactics - they finally worked out in the 80th minute that keeping ball in hand and attacking patiently eventually creates an overlap to score - as up until then I was hardly impressed at their efforts. I'd heard calls for Roberts to be named player of the tournament though he had his worst performance of the tournament which I imagine would put a stop to any more calls for him to receive that award.

I was waiting for Australia to put Wales down to earth somewhat tbh. I know they are a well coached and reasonably talented side but they have been overhyped of late.

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by Somerset

Would've been different had Beale not blown his hamstring in the first 10 minutes too. I was a bit confused about the Welsh tactics - they finally worked out in the 80th minute that keeping ball in hand and attacking patiently eventually creates an overlap to score - as up until then I was hardly impressed at their efforts. I'd heard calls for Roberts to be named player of the tournament though he had his worst performance of the tournament which I imagine would put a stop to any more calls for him to receive that award.

That try only got scored because Australia had already won. Wales tried to run it before that and couldn't get anywhere - in one case leading to a poor dropped goal attempt.

Overall Wales didn't look very penetrative. If you can stop Roberts then you stop Wales it seems.

Wales' try was due to an obvious forward pass. Wales were flattered by the score line.

Constant handling errors - of which Roberts was guilty as well.

And as Gatland pointed out slow ball back from the breakdown.

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by Somerset

I highly doubt that'll be the last of Cooper at international level. Put aside the WC and for the majority of the year he performed better than Carter (admittedly DC struggled in Super Rugby with injury for a period). With due respect to Barnes, hes conventional but not outstanding when compared to Cooper, whos still only 23 after all. Perhaps Cooper is to Australian rugby what Sehwag is to Indian cricket - brilliant when hes on form but exposed when hes not. Also I'll point out that Cooper's comfortably the top "try assister" in the tournament.

Please remind me of a test match this year or any year where he has lived up to his Super 15 levels of pure dominance.

Also Barnes is consistent. Cooper is like a box of chocolates.

I have come to the conclusion that he needs to reign it in at this level and just do the simple things well. There was a great interview with Benji Marshall a couple of years ago - he said I have realised that I need to play percentages and not try to make a play happen every play. And he has gone great guns ever since. I realise this is a leaague example but he is a similar talent and in a similar position.

[BoyBrumby]

Originally Posted by Somerset

I highly doubt that'll be the last of Cooper at international level. Put aside the WC and for the majority of the year he performed better than Carter (admittedly DC struggled in Super Rugby with injury for a period). With due respect to Barnes, hes conventional but not outstanding when compared to Cooper, whos still only 23 after all. Perhaps Cooper is to Australian rugby what Sehwag is to Indian cricket - brilliant when hes on form but exposed when hes not. Also I'll point out that Cooper's comfortably the top "try assister" in the tournament.

Would guess all were against the US, Russia & Italy tho. Went missing in all the big games.

[Somerset]

Originally Posted by Hurricane

Please remind me of a test match this year or any year where he has lived up to his Super 15 levels of pure dominance.

Also Barnes is consistent. Cooper is like a box of chocolates.

I have come to the conclusion that he needs to reign it in at this level and just do the simple things well. There was a great interview with Benji Marshall a couple of years ago - he said I have realised that I need to play percentages and not try to make a play happen every play. And he has gone great guns ever since. I realise this is a leaague example but he is a similar talent and in a similar position.

When Australia have played well this year (particularly vs NZ in Brisbane and their away match in SA), Genia and Cooper were commanding. For the Reds they were irresistable. Sure Barnes is consistent - I wouldn't mind him starting at 12 (my real issue is his impact off the bench) - but if Australia are going to ignite such a talented backline then I feel the Genia-Cooper halves combination is the best way to go.

Originally Posted by BoyBrumby

Would guess all were against the US, Russia & Italy tho. Went missing in all the big games.

Yeh almost exclusively in those three matches. My point was more to illustrate that despite being bagged for his efforts in some of the big matches, some of his better efforts were rather ignored.

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by Somerset

When Australia have played well this year (particularly vs NZ in Brisbane and their away match in SA), Genia and Cooper were commanding. For the Reds they were irresistable. Sure Barnes is consistent - I wouldn't mind him starting at 12 (my real issue is his impact off the bench) - but if Australia are going to ignite such a talented backline then I feel the Genia-Cooper halves combination is the best way to go.

Yeh almost exclusively in those three matches. My point was more to illustrate that despite being bagged for his efforts in some of the big matches, some of his better efforts were rather ignored.

Genia was amazing in Brisbane - Cooper was solid but not game breaking. Didn't see him in SA.

I have highlighted the part I wish to comment on. He looked like the greatest 10 to ever play during the super 15. And I feel you are taking his super 15 talent into account when judging his play for Australia. You figure if persevered with he will find his feet at this level.
Is this what you think?

[Somerset]

Originally Posted by Hurricane

Genia was amazing in Brisbane - Cooper was solid but not game breaking. Didn't see him in SA.

I have highlighted the part I wish to comment on. He looked like the greatest 10 to ever play during the super 15. And I feel you are taking his super 15 talent into account when judging his play for Australia. You figure if persevered with he will find his feet at this level.
Is this what you think?

Well I will say that Super Rugby form doesn't always translate into test form - Stephen Donald's a pretty good illustration of that - but even so, when Donald was playing well he was still clearly inferior to Carter. Cooper was the best 10 in Super Rugby this year comfortably and I think that, with a little more direction, could be one of Australia's best ever 10s. Hes still only 23 IIRC so by 2015 will have a lot more experience to draw on - plus he won't have to endure the wrath of NZ crowds.

[ripper868]

Yep - Let's the write the guy off at 23 and plug for a guy who hasn't played all season and shown little at international level.

Genia-Cooper is the Aussie halves pairing for the next 8 years, unless Quade goes to League.

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by Somerset

Well I will say that Super Rugby form doesn't always translate into test form - Stephen Donald's a pretty good illustration of that - but even so, when Donald was playing well he was still clearly inferior to Carter. Cooper was the best 10 in Super Rugby this year comfortably and I think that, with a little more direction, could be one of Australia's best ever 10s. Hes still only 23 IIRC so by 2015 will have a lot more experience to draw on - plus he won't have to endure the wrath of NZ crowds.

Originally Posted by ripper868

Yep - Let's the write the guy off at 23 and plug for a guy who hasn't played all season and shown little at international level.

Genia-Cooper is the Aussie halves pairing for the next 8 years, unless Quade goes to League.

Too happy right now to debate anything. If you want to pick him based on potential so be it - just provide him with mentorship and coaching.

Cheers Lads.