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Thread: Pool D - Fiji, Nambia, Samoa, South Africa, Wales

  1. #31
    Global Moderator Somerset's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Seems like this is happening more and more though doesn't it with big tournaments where the TMO isn't being used to its full effect. Football World Cup last year, and now Rugby World Cup this year where big wrong decisions have changed the course of matches. Surprised Gatland was as calm as he was post match.
    I think if that decision not to award the penalty kick had happened in the final minute, he'd have been furious; but given it was early in the match I don't think it was a defining play in the end (I get that it was the difference on the scoreboard, but if Wales led by 2 with a few minutes to play, you wouldn't have seen FdP kicking the ball dead and killing the game for example). As far as I know the TMO can actually be used for kicks at goal (since its a scoring play) in which either the referee or assistant referees are uncertain on - I've seen it used for dropkicks several times in the past. My guess is that the assistants both deemed it to be missing so opted not to use the technology. This is the ruling quoted in the laws by the way: "The official may be consulted in relation to the success or otherwise of kicks at goal."

  2. #32
    Global Moderator Somerset's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Wales were off-side by the way the refs had been calling it in the other matches pretty much every single ruck.

    Terrrrrrrrible refereeing all round in this match.

    At least it was consistent though.
    Barnes seems pretty relaxed on the offside laws compared to say, Allan Roland. Its actually been interesting to see the different refereeing interpretations, today in particular - Rolland was very strict on basically everything (even scrum feeds against Burgess) while Joubert and Barnes both tried to allow the game to flow more without their interference.

  3. #33
    Cricket Web Owner James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somerset View Post
    I think if that decision not to award the penalty kick had happened in the final minute, he'd have been furious; but given it was early in the match I don't think it was a defining play in the end (I get that it was the difference on the scoreboard, but if Wales led by 2 with a few minutes to play, you wouldn't have seen FdP kicking the ball dead and killing the game for example). As far as I know the TMO can actually be used for kicks at goal (since its a scoring play) in which either the referee or assistant referees are uncertain on - I've seen it used for dropkicks several times in the past. My guess is that the assistants both deemed it to be missing so opted not to use the technology. This is the ruling quoted in the laws by the way: "The official may be consulted in relation to the success or otherwise of kicks at goal."
    That makes sense rule wise, but if the decision is wrong, it makes logical sense to me anyway for the TMO to get in their ear and tell them it's wrong and to give the points. They could have even done that at half-time couldn't they? In the post match comments, apparently Francois Steyn even said it went over.

    It may not have been the defining play, but it went a long way towards deciding the match, because Wales would have led 19-10 rather than 16-10 going into the final quarter.

    We'll never know now, but this won't be the last we'll hear of it. I even see the headline on NZ Herald for the match is "Referee blunder costs Wales".

  4. #34
    Global Moderator Somerset's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    That makes sense rule wise, but if the decision is wrong, it makes logical sense to me anyway for the TMO to get in their ear and tell them it's wrong and to give the points. They could have even done that at half-time couldn't they? In the post match comments, apparently Francois Steyn even said it went over.

    It may not have been the defining play, but it went a long way towards deciding the match, because Wales would have led 19-10 rather than 16-10 going into the final quarter.

    We'll never know now, but this won't be the last we'll hear of it. I even see the headline on NZ Herald for the match is "Referee blunder costs Wales".
    Thats an interesting suggestion, I guess its outside of the rules to retrospectively award points (and the restart in play is different for missed and successful kicks so theres also that to consider). I do see your point though, and I also understand that it could've made the challenge harder for South Africa if Wales had extended to a 9 point lead - but again, if that kick was awarded and the score became 10-9 at halftime, then theres a butterfly effect so I'm a little cautious in that regard. Would be funny if that is a headline since its not so much a referee blunder from Barnes, but more so the assistants who should've had the best view of whether the kick went over or not.


  5. #35
    Hall of Fame Member TT Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somerset View Post
    Its pretty difficult to kick at the Cake Tin, the wind swirls so you're never really sure as a goalkicker; I don't think the blame should lie with Hook at all. Interested to have another look at one of his first half penalties which looked like it went through the posts but was deemed not to by the assistant referees.

    South Africa really got out of jail, for large parts of the second half I was sure that Wales were about to cause the first upset of the tournament. As I had predicted, South Africa's replacements in Bismark and Houggard were a huge improvement on Smit and Habana, and both had key roles in ensuring they got the victory. Will be a bit of a concern that Matfield and de Villiers both had to leave the field with injuries, particularly with Botha already out for a while.
    de Villiers has had terrible luck with the WCs. Missed the 2003 through an injury sustained in a warm-up game, tore his bicep in a pool game in 2007 and now he looks to be out with what looks like a broken rib. But Matfield would be the bigger concern as there is no specialist 5 in the Boks 30 man squad, outside Muller.

    Huge scare for the Boks here but they know how to win, not matter how ugly.

    Smit unfortunately has to start but hopefully we will see Alberts and Hougaard start from now on. Habana is stick in a fork in him finished but Spies had no right being in the squad. Ashley Johnson, Deysel should have been infront of him. And please start Lambie or Butch at 10. I'm over Morne Steyn. Maybe it was the haircut but Frans Steyn seems to better conditioned than he was in the Tri-Nations and it was Frans boot that kept the Welsh at bay.

  6. #36
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    Was at the game last night. Absolutely gutted by the end result. Wales had plenty of opportunities to finally get one over on the Boks and I'd say were marginally the better team.

    One thing I didn't like was the number of wasted box kicks by the half back and the number of punts straight to either Habana or the Boks' full back.

    Guess we'll lose to Samoa now after expending all that energy against the Saffers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    Was at the game last night. Absolutely gutted by the end result. Wales had plenty of opportunities to finally get one over on the Boks and I'd say were marginally the better team.

    One thing I didn't like was the number of wasted box kicks by the half back and the number of punts straight to either Habana or the Boks' full back.

    Guess we'll lose to Samoa now after expending all that energy against the Saffers.


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  8. #38
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somerset View Post
    Its pretty difficult to kick at the Cake Tin, the wind swirls so you're never really sure as a goalkicker; I don't think the blame should lie with Hook at all. Interested to have another look at one of his first half penalties which looked like it went through the posts but was deemed not to by the assistant referees.

    South Africa really got out of jail, for large parts of the second half I was sure that Wales were about to cause the first upset of the tournament. As I had predicted, South Africa's replacements in Bismark and Houggard were a huge improvement on Smit and Habana, and both had key roles in ensuring they got the victory. Will be a bit of a concern that Matfield and de Villiers both had to leave the field with injuries, particularly with Botha already out for a while.
    what about the drop goal from like 15 metres out? was a terrible miss.
    whats worse is that wales were in such a good position to score a try from there but he randomly decided to go for the drop goal.

    I'm not going to blame any refs when players themselves have missed such chances.

  10. #40
    Global Moderator Somerset's Avatar
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    Yeh wasn't a great dropkick attempt, I'll admit that. Going for the three points was the smart thing to do though - a "good position" to score a try is a little bit misleading given South Africa possess one of the best defences in international rugby, and Wales only needed a score of any sort to take the lead.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somerset View Post
    Yeh wasn't a great dropkick attempt, I'll admit that. Going for the three points was the smart thing to do though - a "good position" to score a try is a little bit misleading given South Africa possess one of the best defences in international rugby, and Wales only needed a score of any sort to take the lead.
    i feel these euporean teams aren't ruthless enough. they opt for a penalty kick whenever they can regardless of how difficult it is. they should at least attempt to score a try when they are close enough to the line. The aim of the game is to score tries, not turn into a kicking contest between the two fly-halfs.

    imo all penalties and kicks etc should be reduced to 2 points to encourage more positive play.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by centurymaker View Post
    i feel these euporean teams aren't ruthless enough. they opt for a penalty kick whenever they can regardless of how difficult it is. they should at least attempt to score a try when they are close enough to the line. The aim of the game is to score tries, not turn into a kicking contest between the two fly-halfs.

    imo all penalties and kicks etc should be reduced to 2 points to encourage more positive play.
    Pretty sure it'd just mean teams would be even more inclined to infringe at the breakdown myself.

    One positive move that could be made would be to do away with conversions and make tries worth a flat 7 points.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Pretty sure it'd just mean teams would be even more inclined to infringe at the breakdown myself.

    One positive move that could be made would be to do away with conversions and make tries worth a flat 7 points.


    yellow cards could be used to prevent/minimize that.


    thats a good idea.

  14. #44
    State Vice-Captain Retox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by centurymaker View Post
    i feel these euporean teams aren't ruthless enough. they opt for a penalty kick whenever they can regardless of how difficult it is. they should at least attempt to score a try when they are close enough to the line. The aim of the game is to score tries, not turn into a kicking contest between the two fly-halfs.

    imo all penalties and kicks etc should be reduced to 2 points to encourage more positive play.
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  15. #45
    Global Moderator Somerset's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retox View Post
    The 2003 world cup winners say hey
    Exactly - in fact, the 2007 winners also might have something to say about that...

    I actually have no real issue with the way points are currently distributed. If teams cheat and conceed penalties, then they deserve to conceed points. I feel 2 points for a penalty compared to a potential 7 for a try is too much incentive for a side to infringe. You could argue for more yellow cards but the issue with yellow cards is that theres often far too much subjectivity between referees as to when to issue them.

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