Official Rugby Thread

[ashley bach]

Say what? He was at fault for missing the up and under for the first try, and for me, is one of the main reasons the attack is not firing the way it should. He upsets the balance of the team because we're forced into playing Jordie for his goal-kicking rather than Jordan playing in his natural position. Beauden's kicking game is also lack-luster as was shown last night and he can't defend at 10. If Razer takes over, I'd bet money that the first thing he does is bench Beauden.

Barrett is a good player, but he's an impact sub, and not a starting first-five from my point of view.

Did you watch the full game or the 5 minute highlights package?
While I didn't watch the game live, I did watch the full replay and took 3 hours in doing so.
It's not Beauden's fault he was selected as starting first five, and it's also not his fault that the game plan sucked eggs.
What he did given the circumstances was outstanding, and I'll stand by that he had a fantastic game.
With green shirts breathing all over him, his ball running was superb, and that play of his tapping the ball back into the in goal to stop a SA line-out
forming 5 metres out, then beating 2 players coming through was a touch of class.
Don't recall him missing a tackle, but do recall him making the ones that came his way.
I can sense your frustration with where the blacks are at the moment, and totally understand it because I'm frustrated too.
In NZ we pride ourselves on the All blacks, it's our national sport and we never take it lightly. When all else fails there was always the All blacks.
But that isn't the case or the reality any more. Other teams have bridged the gap and we haven't adapted to that yet.
To give you an idea of my loyalty towards the blacks, do you remember 2 years ago when we lost for the first time ever to Argentina?
I laid the All blacks that day at 1.02 for in excess of 30 grand, and while I pissed away some of that backing the blacks back, I can remember during
the game thinking, do I want to win here or do I want Argentina to beat us for the first time ever? now tell me that's not loyalty!
So yeah get where you're coming from but blaming players for selection and game plans isn't the right call, we need better management.
Running the ball from deep in our half against quality opposition is crazy stupid, it's almost certainly leading to nothing but mortal danger.
Field position first and attack when in position to do so is a no brainer, but that plan completely fell by the wayside last night.
Don't like to heap all the fault on Foster but just don't think he's the man for the job. He's had plenty of chances and he probably now has the worst
record of any All blacks coach in history. All that really matters now is that we build and get into position to challenge for next years world cup.
I say sharpen the axes and bring in razor Robertson, flaming heck the guy at least deserves the chance doesn't he?

 

[James]

Did you watch the full game or the 5 minute highlights package?
While I didn't watch the game live, I did watch the full replay and took 3 hours in doing so.
It's not Beauden's fault he was selected as starting first five, and it's also not his fault that the game plan sucked eggs.
What he did given the circumstances was outstanding, and I'll stand by that he had a fantastic game.
With green shirts breathing all over him, his ball running was superb, and that play of his tapping the ball back into the in goal to stop a SA line-out
forming 5 metres out, then beating 2 players coming through was a touch of class.

Watched the game live.

It was interesting on the Breakdown today that Mils Muliaina said one of the 3 changes that he'd make for the coming weekend is bringing Mo'unga into the 10 position and moving Beauden back to full-back. He is obviously seeing something that isn't working with Beauden at first-five and perhaps it's as I thought that it's the kicking game that is lacking and his general tactics at running a back-line. We need to play territory and not constantly try for 70+ metre tries.

To give you an idea of my loyalty towards the blacks, do you remember 2 years ago when we lost for the first time ever to Argentina?
I laid the All blacks that day at 1.02 for in excess of 30 grand, and while I pissed away some of that backing the blacks back, I can remember during
the game thinking, do I want to win here or do I want Argentina to beat us for the first time ever? now tell me that's not loyalty!

OUCH! That was some bet!

So yeah get where you're coming from but blaming players for selection and game plans isn't the right call, we need better management.

Agree, but you also have to question the senior players who no doubt have input into game plans. And ultimately the players are the field should be able to change things up if the initial game plan isn't working.

Don't like to heap all the fault on Foster but just don't think he's the man for the job. He's had plenty of chances and he probably now has the worst
record of any All blacks coach in history. All that really matters now is that we build and get into position to challenge for next years world cup.
I say sharpen the axes and bring in razor Robertson, flaming heck the guy at least deserves the chance doesn't he?

Totally agree , it will be interesting to see what the NZRU do over the next two weeks.

 

[Flem274*]

If you want a territory game then JB needs to be on the field. Richie has quietly morphed into Beaudy 2.0. I prefer it because it's fun but Jordie is now by far our best in play boot selected.

 

[Flem274*]

You can question my analysis - doesn't matter in my association to CW.



I agree, but I was responding to Barrett having had a great game which I disagree with. As I mentioned in my second post, we had literally no kicking game last night, and Barrett has proved over the years that it isn't his strength. That's one of the reasons why I believe Mo'unga would be a better fit - especially against the Bok. We needed to get into a kicking duel with them last night and play a territory game.

Why is Jordan playing 15 for the Crusaders but 14 for the All Blacks, Jordie 12 for the Hurricanes but 15 for the All Blacks? If Beauden is great on defence, why doesn't he defend in the line, in the natural 10 position? But Mo'unga does defend at 10.



We were destroyed at the break-down by Ireland and now South Africa - that's on Cane and ultimately the captain and coach go down with the ship. Did he pilfer any Bok ball? Did he have any strong carries? Is he a lineout option? Is he even big/strong enough to move bodies from rucks? He tackles well, I give him that, but he's clearly not a leader and doesn't command the 7 spot.



Beauden isn't the main problem (one of them), but it's clear we've been ordinary on attack for a while now and need a change in there to try and unlock the back-line. Mo'unga at first-five is that man for me. But yes, as you say, it all starts up front, and we've been poor there and lacking go-forward which puts the backs under un-due pressure.

If I was to name a main problem, it's Foster though who never should have been appointed coach. You can see at the press conferences he's lost, and the game-plans seem to be non existent.

- BB had a good game
- Richie kicks average too now, and Boks would rather a stop start kicking duel
- Richie defends wing even at Super level. He's McKenzie size but only one gets stick for it ?
- Jordan is Crusaders best 15. JB is Hurricanes best back and our midfield is mud. With JGB on field JB was our first receiver and even at "12" would often move to fullback on d. JB at 12 also permits all of Morgan, Love, Rayasi and Savea onfield rather than benching one for some average centre.
-Jordan is mediocre at best on d.
-Cane arguably our best tackler. Savea the jackal. Dalton had a chance against Ireland to show he hits as hard as Cane. He does not, and I like Papalii'i a lot.
-Ruck clean outs I watched were bad when Bower in particular was involved.
-Richie has suffered from the same issues as BB when we're not on the front foot. Teams surround our 9 and 10 which happens to everyone when the forwards go backwards.

 

[StephenZA]

I know he was an exceptional player and it seems obvious but NZ lost so much when McCaw retired... NZ seemed to slowly loose the ability to compete at breakdown, just gone backwards...

I also note that Foster wants to not allow jumping for the ball...

 

[Heboric]

I also note that Foster wants to not allow jumping for the ball...

Yeah I read that as well, poor Boks cant catch a break. I think they introduced those waterbreaks we are seeing after the Super Waterboy Rassie incident

 

[James]

If you want a territory game then JB needs to be on the field. Richie has quietly morphed into Beaudy 2.0. I prefer it because it's fun but Jordie is now by far our best in play boot selected.

How would your team look for the weekend? Excluding the tight five, mine would be:

6 Frizell

7 Ardie

8 Sotutu

9 Smith
10 Mounga

11 Clarke

12 Jordie
13 Lester (some punch in midfield)

14 Ioane

15 Jordan

 

[Flem274*]

How would your team look for the weekend? Excluding the tight five, mine would be:

6 Frizell

7 Ardie

8 Sotutu

9 Smith
10 Mounga

11 Clarke

12 Jordie
13 Lester (some punch in midfield)

14 Ioane

15 Jordan

I don't think any of these positions matter without a better tight 5 and overall strategy. My point for about 2 years is it doesn't matter who plays flanker, 10, wing or fullback. The guys in those spots are all extremely similar in quality. The coaching and front row are consistently letting us down.

FWIW my 23 would be..

1. de Groot
2. Taukei'aho (just keeps getting better and better, lineout was good with him on)
3. Newell (outplayed Jager for the Crusaders, and I'd be keen on his mate Williams too)
4. Vaai'i
5. Whitelock
6. Barrett (apart from the dog acts I think he's been our most present 6 this winter...a very present 6)
7. Cane (c)
8. Savea
9. Smith
10. Barrett if fit
11. Clarke
12. Havili (he proved me very wrong on the weekend, had a good game under pressure)
13. Ioane
14. Jordan
15. Barrett if fit

16. Flip a coin
17. Ross (lynch pin for the Chiefs this year, who had a statistically dominant and visually safe scrum)
18. Not Tyrel Lomax
19. Papalii'i
20. Sotutu
21. Fakatava
22. Mo'unga
23. Reece, but I'm not fussed. Any of the reserve backs have the pace and/or physicality to turn it on given a chance. At least use Perofeta if you won't give him back to Taranaki.

 

[StephenZA]

@Flem274* Just for you...

Producing proper test match forwards not high on New Zealand's priority list

We wouldn’t pick Trevor Nyakane or Frans Malherbe for the All Blacks. Forget the way the Springboks demolished the scrum at Mbombela.

www.rugbypass.com

 

[Flem274*]

@Flem274* Just for you...

Producing proper test match forwards not high on New Zealand's priority list

We wouldn’t pick Trevor Nyakane or Frans Malherbe for the All Blacks. Forget the way the Springboks demolished the scrum at Mbombela.

www.rugbypass.com

I'm a lot less doomer than Bidwell because I think core role players are still on the scene (from young guys like Ross and Williams through to Franks still kicking) but it's selecting and developing them. "Dynamic" is now a synonym for "can't scrum or throw the ball straight" imo.

It's nice when a front rower is athletic af but Coles was a great player primarily because he could score tries and do his core role. Taukei'aho is fun but what was best about him was how safe he was in his core role last weekend, whereas I cringe when Lomax comes on in Super Rugby for my team.

 

[Heboric]

@Flem274* Just for you...

Producing proper test match forwards not high on New Zealand's priority list

We wouldn’t pick Trevor Nyakane or Frans Malherbe for the All Blacks. Forget the way the Springboks demolished the scrum at Mbombela.

www.rugbypass.com

Trev is to talented and multi skilled...

 

[Heboric]

Squad for second test

South Africa

15 Damian Willemse, 14 Jesse Kriel, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Jaden Hendrikse, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 6 Siya Kolisi (captain), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Bongi Mbonambi, 1 Ox Nche

Substitutes: 16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Franco Mostert, 20 Jasper Wiese, 21 Kwagga Smith, 22 Herschel Jantjies, 23 Willie le Roux

 

[James]

Wow that was some performance from the All Blacks, very impressive and counted the Bok brilliantly. Getting Mounga in at first five certainly made a whale of a difference and notice how he defended the 10 channel all night.

Be very interesting to see what happens with Cane and especially Foster now.

 

[Flem274*]

Excellent lift from the boys. We defended the receiver soooo much better under the high ball and the forwards came to play.

What was encouraging was we made some dumb mistakes in our haste to run them off their feet (throwing intercepts, passes to no one, no clearing kick when trapped) and we still won probably by virtue of the hustle. Their starting front row was shattered after 30 minutes.

 

[StephenZA]

Great game and lift by NZ. Felt SA did not take their opportunities.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Great to get a win. For once I decided to sleep and checked the result when I woke up.

And Argentina!!! Wow

 

[GotSpin]

That was such a thumping.

 

[social]

‘fraid to say “I told you so” about the Wallabies

Not enough depth to cover all their injuries & team isn’t particularly good at full strength anyway

 

[ripper868]

Don't really think there's any told you so when it comes to the Wallabies losing tbh. I've not seen the game, just the scoreline, and thinks it's probably a fair reflection of where the team are at. Bledisloe stays in NZ for another 10 years at this rate.

 

[Heboric]

Congrats New Zealand, the first half killed us.
A bit unlucky to lose a player again so early on in the game

Jeepers that Mark Keohane is an absolute piece of garbage, embarassed that he is South African