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Thread: Every Superhero Film Ever

  1. #61
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    I reckon for most people it's just the novelty of seeing different superpowers with each new movie, and the different permutations and combinations of heroes/villains fighting and interacting with said powers.

  2. #62
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightprowler10 View Post
    I don't think I mentioned anything about humor, though I do find many films have a lot of forced humor that really doesn't land (GOTG2 is a good example, WW had some minor cringe as well). In contrast, I think GOTG1 and Antman were pretty funny. I have watched almost all MCU films (IM3 and Thor2 excepted), and they've been pretty formulaic with the exception of the CA and Gotg movies. The choice of characters was risky at times but the formula is usually pretty safe from my perspective.

    Anyhoo, I don't care much for Snyder either. I honestly didn't know who he was until the lead up to BvS, and never even realized he directed MoS (I just knew it was not-Nolan). Based on what I've seen, I think he lacks an understanding of how to tell a story properly, and I don't know why WB went with him to be the Fiege figure for DCEU. I only really love what he does visually. So I'm not out to defend him personally, but I don't think you can really blame him for SS when it was obvious the studio had fully taken over the process. Ayer's version with Snyder in charge probably would've been bad, but this brand of bad was not of his making IMO.

    Not sure how much Whedon can change in this timeframe tbh. I'll be happy if the end result is coherent at this point. So far I have the same concerns I had with BvS that there is just too much going on.

    For the future, I really hope Patty Jenkins gets a shot at making MoS2. I like her style. Super excited that Reeves stayed on for Batman as well. Word is he's scrapping past development and starting over.

    Then how many other movies were there?


    I hate to do this but I dont see a choice..


    Avengers - Never done before event cross over movie. Focusses on events and character interactions lot more as the foundation of earlier movies' helps the narrative take off at a higher plane than any other movie.

    Iron Man 3 - You can dismiss it as yet another redemption arc but its basically a guy battling the question that every super hero faces but done in a fun new way. And the Mandarin twist was a huge risk any which way you look at it.

    Thor 2 - A dark theme, I understand it was lightened up over reshoots. Movie was a bit of a mess, but a watchable mess nonetheless. I will give you this one. They had the chance to risk it, and they pulled their punches.

    Cap 2 - 70s spy thriller, with a super hero as the lead.

    GotG - Space Opera, extremely different from anything anyone saw with the MCU till that point.

    Avengers 2 - Again, just like Thor 2, a pretty dark premise brought back a little bit to the formula. But still, a very enjoyable follow up and honestly, Avengers movies are cross over stuff. Expect them to be rather formulaic.

    Ant Man - Heist film. Stakes extremely low and a very goofy base done in an even more goofy manner.

    Cap 3 - Political thriller. The most grown up MCU movie till that point. Again, whatever was the formula, I am sure I missed it here.

    Dr. Strange - Typical origin story but here the risk was taken in the visuals. It could have gone extremely bad, but it didn't.

    GotG 2 - An Empire Strikes Back to the original's New Hope. Fun Space Opera changes to a dark theme and sacrifice. Again, fail to see the formula here.

    Spiderman 1 - High school boy grows up story. Given the no. of Marvel tropes they broke down in this one, I again fail to see the formula.

    I said it before, I think the light heartedness, the quips, the snark, the hero redemption - people think this makes all the MCU movies the same, but the fact is that its an inability on their part to see beyond the surface.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani View Post
    Then how many other movies were there?


    I hate to do this but I dont see a choice..


    Avengers - Never done before event cross over movie. Focusses on events and character interactions lot more as the foundation of earlier movies' helps the narrative take off at a higher plane than any other movie.

    Iron Man 3 - You can dismiss it as yet another redemption arc but its basically a guy battling the question that every super hero faces but done in a fun new way. And the Mandarin twist was a huge risk any which way you look at it.

    Thor 2 - A dark theme, I understand it was lightened up over reshoots. Movie was a bit of a mess, but a watchable mess nonetheless. I will give you this one. They had the chance to risk it, and they pulled their punches.

    Cap 2 - 70s spy thriller, with a super hero as the lead.

    GotG - Space Opera, extremely different from anything anyone saw with the MCU till that point.

    Avengers 2 - Again, just like Thor 2, a pretty dark premise brought back a little bit to the formula. But still, a very enjoyable follow up and honestly, Avengers movies are cross over stuff. Expect them to be rather formulaic.

    Ant Man - Heist film. Stakes extremely low and a very goofy base done in an even more goofy manner.

    Cap 3 - Political thriller. The most grown up MCU movie till that point. Again, whatever was the formula, I am sure I missed it here.

    Dr. Strange - Typical origin story but here the risk was taken in the visuals. It could have gone extremely bad, but it didn't.

    GotG 2 - An Empire Strikes Back to the original's New Hope. Fun Space Opera changes to a dark theme and sacrifice. Again, fail to see the formula here.

    Spiderman 1 - High school boy grows up story. Given the no. of Marvel tropes they broke down in this one, I again fail to see the formula.

    I said it before, I think the light heartedness, the quips, the snark, the hero redemption - people think this makes all the MCU movies the same, but the fact is that its an inability on their part to see beyond the surface.
    I feel like you have it the wrong way round here - all of these things are part of the formula that people speak of. You can make different genres and fill each instalment with homages to different films, but when you can predict the way the story is going regardless, and the tonal shifts feel familiar, the fact that its dressed up in a different genre doesn't matter.

    It's not like Marvel don't know they're doing this, they want all of these films to feel like they're in the same universe, they want people to know they're watching a Marvel film, and so they slap all of their hallmarks onto it. This is the problem with Cinematic Universe filmmaking as a concept, more than superhero storytelling, and I think it will continue to show diminishing returns since the freshness of some of those earlier films.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW1304 View Post
    I feel like you have it the wrong way round here - all of these things are part of the formula that people speak of. You can make different genres and fill each instalment with homages to different films, but when you can predict the way the story is going regardless, and the tonal shifts feel familiar, the fact that its dressed up in a different genre doesn't matter.

    It's not like Marvel don't know they're doing this, they want all of these films to feel like they're in the same universe, they want people to know they're watching a Marvel film, and so they slap all of their hallmarks onto it. This is the problem with Cinematic Universe filmmaking as a concept, more than superhero storytelling, and I think it will continue to show diminishing returns since the freshness of some of those earlier films.

    Well, Guardians was like the 10th film in the MCU. There was tonal shift there. Again, you are looking at certain attributes and qualifying the whole based on that. Its very possible for very different things to have some of the same attributes. Yes, there are quips, banter and jokes in there but that has really nothing to do with the plot. I mean, I am pretty sure no one saw Quicksilver getting killed off in Ultron if these "tonal shifts" were so predictable. And again, when you thought someone would die, like in Civil War, they didn't. There is trademark Marvel in every movie but I dont think it puts them in the same genre at all. These attributes do not define the movie, at least AFAIC, coz I like to get into the plot and the world of these things. And judging by fan reactions, so do a majority.


  5. #65
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    Batman (1966)

    It's not very hard to figure out that this is a film not meant to be taken seriously, but what's disappointing about it is the lack of actual, y'know, jokes. It's silly as hell but that isn't really the same thing as funny. It never really decides on whether it's going for actual comedy or just making something for the kids to be distracted y for an hour, because kids are morons and we can put up whatever comes off the top of our heads for a bit.



    - message that appears in the opening credits in order to apologise for the film's existence

    The infamous 'shark repellent' scene appears nine minutes in - so it's a big one for setting up the tone of the thing - and the music and editing makes it look like this is being portrayed entirely as drama. If this were a GOTG scene for example it'd be no less dumb, but there'd be something in the script to let the characters make fun of it or each other. Not the case here, and I struggled to get on board with the tone pretty much throughout.

    I've got no problem with kids' stuff, but yeah, this is not interested in appealing to anyone else. I dunno what I expected - for a feature-length episode of a beloved TV series I thought it would have more charm to it. For me, a bit too foreign.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Rise-fall-redemption is just an incredibly powerful formula. It clicks with the human brain in the same way that verse-chorus-verse-chorus-breakdown-chorus clicks. Getting people to pay 8 to see predictable shite is at the lower end of its power. Like Vimes alludes to it's basically the entire basis of Christianity. Countries pretty frequently go to war because the population envisage themselves between fall and redemption.

    I don't think I respond to it that strongly. I think superhero movies are absolute turd. I always happily lap up the latest formulaic pop banger though.
    I agree. The Nolan trilogy exemplifies this on a broader scale as well. I've always suspected that Nolan would have wanted to name the final installment along the lines of Batman Redemption to complete the arc, but the studio might have over ruled him because the "Dark Knight" branding was too powerful to ignore after the success of the second movie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    I think people watch these movies because they're just big kids who dont want to grow up and deal with real life
    Something that could also be said of people who watch sports?

  8. #68
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  9. #69
    Cricket Web Staff Member MW1304's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani View Post
    Well, Guardians was like the 10th film in the MCU. There was tonal shift there. Again, you are looking at certain attributes and qualifying the whole based on that. Its very possible for very different things to have some of the same attributes. Yes, there are quips, banter and jokes in there but that has really nothing to do with the plot. I mean, I am pretty sure no one saw Quicksilver getting killed off in Ultron if these "tonal shifts" were so predictable. And again, when you thought someone would die, like in Civil War, they didn't. There is trademark Marvel in every movie but I dont think it puts them in the same genre at all. These attributes do not define the movie, at least AFAIC, coz I like to get into the plot and the world of these things. And judging by fan reactions, so do a majority.
    Which is why Guardians is considered the best in the franchise by many. Even then, the lovely balance of tone they struck in that film has been repeated again and again in later ones. Part of why the Ragnarok trailer didn't excite me like it did many others is because it felt like Guardians.

    I didn't say the tonal shifts were predictable, but they are very familiar. The shifts between goofy hijinks and super serious emotionally resonant moment happen over and over again, it feels tired by now. And I also didn't say they were in the same genre, but you can have a great genre piece structure around a film that still hangs on a formula.

    You asked where the formula was at play in Civil War? I thought that was the worst example, just writ larger. They had to service about 20 different characters, maintain the conflict between the established factions whilst making sure each superhero got to display their defining characteristics, fit in your big action setpieces including a tonal shift into cartoonland at the airport, before finishing on the big fight you knew was going to happen from the start. Considering all they had to juggle they did a pretty fine job, it was definitely ambitious, but yes it felt like the absolute culmination of the Marvel formula.

    Anyway I'm going to stop shitting on these films because I totally get why people like them, and they don't bother me as much as it looks when I'm writing too many words about them.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightprowler10 View Post
    MotP was great. Flashpoint Paradox and Under the Red Hood are my next two favorites. To segue off of this, have you seen Justice League Dark? I think it's the best out of the new DCAU.
    Yes and I thought it was pretty good, but it suffered from needing to have Batman in it for not much reason at all which is pretty consistently a problem in the DCAU. I mean I love Batman but FFS trust that you can show us characters cool enough so we don't need him on screen every other minute.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howe_zat View Post
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    It's not perfect but it's a pretty solid film this, I still find it pretty amazing how well they nailed the score.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Yes and I thought it was pretty good, but it suffered from needing to have Batman in it for not much reason at all which is pretty consistently a problem in the DCAU. I mean I love Batman but FFS trust that you can show us characters cool enough so we don't need him on screen every other minute.
    Haha yeah I actually meant to mention that it lost points for that reason. If they had to put a JL member there, it would have been nice to see them work Superman in there with his vulnerability to magic.
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightprowler10 View Post
    Haha yeah I actually meant to mention that it lost points for that reason. If they had to put a JL member there, it would have been nice to see them work Superman in there with his vulnerability to magic.
    Superman, WW, Shazam, Cyborg all would've been pretty interesting with the dynamic they bring. Superman being as susceptible to magic as anyone, WW as probably the best JL member for the job in general but still dealing with greek mythology vs. Constantine bullshit and the other two would be hilarious, Shazam would be scared shitless by most of the stuff those guys deal with despite the fact hes pure magic, and Cyborg would have NFI what to do
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  14. #74
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW1304 View Post
    Which is why Guardians is considered the best in the franchise by many. Even then, the lovely balance of tone they struck in that film has been repeated again and again in later ones. Part of why the Ragnarok trailer didn't excite me like it did many others is because it felt like Guardians.

    I didn't say the tonal shifts were predictable, but they are very familiar. The shifts between goofy hijinks and super serious emotionally resonant moment happen over and over again, it feels tired by now. And I also didn't say they were in the same genre, but you can have a great genre piece structure around a film that still hangs on a formula.

    You asked where the formula was at play in Civil War? I thought that was the worst example, just writ larger. They had to service about 20 different characters, maintain the conflict between the established factions whilst making sure each superhero got to display their defining characteristics, fit in your big action setpieces including a tonal shift into cartoonland at the airport, before finishing on the big fight you knew was going to happen from the start. Considering all they had to juggle they did a pretty fine job, it was definitely ambitious, but yes it felt like the absolute culmination of the Marvel formula.

    Anyway I'm going to stop shitting on these films because I totally get why people like them, and they don't bother me as much as it looks when I'm writing too many words about them.

    See, just with that example, to me, the tonal shifts played perfectly into what each character had going on during that Airport battle. Spiderman, Antman, Hawkeye etc were not holding any personal grudges and they were the ones who brought levity to their respective fights. The rest of them were going hard. War Machine was never a part of the bigger group and it obviously was not THAT personal to him and so his jokes landed. Tony Stark will always have a quip or a funny one liner no matter how serious his fight is. AFAIC, they nailed every single second of that fight, tonally as well as logistically.

  15. #75
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    There was quite a bit of criticism of a lot of the action set pieces in phase 2 for being formulaic, it's sort of established in Iron Man 2 that would involve the hero/es getting beaten down in a one on one contest with the enemy approximately midway through the film, before a final set piece of action that involved a whole host of things getting blown up in the sky and a fairly short battle with the baddie.

    Phase 1

    Iron Man 2
    The Avengers

    Phase 2

    Iron Man 3
    Thor: The Dark World (sorta, the sky battle set piece happens a little out of order)
    Captain America: The Winter Soldier
    Guardians of the Galaxy
    Avengers: Age of Ultron

    so far in phase 3 that hasn't really happened except for sooooooorta Guardians of the Galaxy 2. But besides Ant-Man all of the final battles were pretty similar. Civil War sort of even played on that theme with giving us a bunch of disposable super soldiers that were shot in their cryo tubes. In a Phase 2 movie that would have been part of the big final sequence, but the action has shifted since then. CA:CW, Dr Strange and Spider-Man Homecoming have all ended without a thousand drones blowing up in the background.
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