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Thread: Star Wars - Episode VII - Discussion and Spoilers

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    Cricketer Of The Year ripper868's Avatar
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    Star Wars - Episode VII - Discussion and Spoilers

    Seems to be a want for this based off posts in the ranking movie thread. Obviously if you don't want spoilers, don't click into this thread.
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    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    one of the things I found inconsistent with the original trilogy (and definitely the prequels) is how quickly and without the slightest help from a jedi master (unless the 30 sec "guidance" from the maz kanata character counts as training), rey figures out mind control, telekinesis and dueling with the light sabre and beats a trained dark lord to boot...luke had two teachers and although he learnt a lot by himself, still took the better part of 3 films to become a jedi, rey seems to have acquired some mastery over the force in 30 min or so...just like she mastered flying the millennium falcon in next to no time...she seems to be a significantly evolved version of anakin and luke...my guess is she will turn out to be luke's daughter (or maybe he created her using the midi-chlorians)...

    also the dark side needs to get over this fascination with death stars, they get bigger each time but just can't seem to get over their weakness against small fleets of resistance fighters...

    han solo dying at his son's hands was as predictable an outcome as they come...the 20 million they had to pay him for this movie may have had something to do with that...

    still a great visual spectacle, less and more appropriate use of cgi, the dueling style more resembling the original trilogy than the prequels, less stilted dialogues, appealing new faces...the force awakens has a lot going for it...
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    JJD Heads Athlai's Avatar
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    With barely any training Luke manages to make an impossible shot that destroys the first Death Star.

    Rey's power is comparable to Lukes, I think she just is able to embrace it without the conflicts he had a bit more freely.

    Also Rey is totally another Organa-Solo. I'll probably write an actual review at some stage, may watch it a 3rd time first.
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    State Vice-Captain BackFootPunch's Avatar
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    Also, it's not like Rey defeated a Darth Vader-type character. Kylo Ren looked pretty untrained and raw - Snoke even said his training needed to be completed. He might have had more training than Rey, but she was competent with her staff thing right from the start, so at least knew the basics of combat.

    Kylo Ren was also fairly badly injured by the time he fought her too. That's something a lot of people seem to ignore. The dude took a blast from Chewie's crossbow, that would've killed a stormtrooper no problems, then fought Finn first. No wonder Ren gave him a bit of trouble.
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    International Coach Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    With barely any training Luke manages to make an impossible shot that destroys the first Death Star.

    Rey's power is comparable to Lukes, I think she just is able to embrace it without the conflicts he had a bit more freely.

    Also Rey is totally another Organa-Solo. I'll probably write an actual review at some stage, may watch it a 3rd time first.
    Nah, there's a huge difference between what Luke does in the original, and what Rey does in this. Even after being trained by Yoda in Empire, Luke still got his arse handed to him by Vader in cbf-mode. Yeah Kylo Ren isn't as strong as Vader, but it's a bit ridiculous to have someone with (presumably) years of training being comprehensively overpowered by someone who's received a 30 second pep talk on feeling the force. The popular theory on the internet is that Rey was at Luke's Jedi academy and had her mind wiped to keep her safe when everything went to hell - and that when Kylo Ren started probing her mind it unlocked her latent force abilities. That would be more satisfying and believable than Rey just being instantly awesome at everything she turns her hand to, but if that's the case then the film really should've made that clear.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend _Ed_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Also Rey is totally another Organa-Solo.
    My first thought was she might be Luke's daughter. But my knowledge of all these movies is pretty minimal, so probably off the mark with that.

    The Nazi Germany vibe went into overload in the rally scene, didn't it? It was pretty noticeable straight away, and then I almost laughed out loud when the salute happened.

    But I really enjoyed the movie - definitely better than I'd expected.
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    I really enjoyed how Kylo got shown up as an insecure wannabe. Him actually not being Darth Vader was one of the few departures the story had from episode IV.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Ed_ View Post
    The Nazi Germany vibe went into overload in the rally scene, didn't it? It was pretty noticeable straight away, and then I almost laughed out loud when the salute happened.
    Me too
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    JJD Heads Athlai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    Nah, there's a huge difference between what Luke does in the original, and what Rey does in this. Even after being trained by Yoda in Empire, Luke still got his arse handed to him by Vader in cbf-mode. Yeah Kylo Ren isn't as strong as Vader, but it's a bit ridiculous to have someone with (presumably) years of training being comprehensively overpowered by someone who's received a 30 second pep talk on feeling the force. The popular theory on the internet is that Rey was at Luke's Jedi academy and had her mind wiped to keep her safe when everything went to hell - and that when Kylo Ren started probing her mind it unlocked her latent force abilities. That would be more satisfying and believable than Rey just being instantly awesome at everything she turns her hand to, but if that's the case then the film really should've made that clear.
    More of this is going to be due to the limitations of filmmaking at the time and introducing concepts of the Force than you'd imagine. Rey is definitely more of a "natural" but we haven't seen anything yet that puts her as being significantly more special than Anakin/Luke when they were able to destroy the trade federation/star killer.

    I think Rey could have certainly had some force training when younger but I don't think it changes much at all. Everytime she used the Force actively there was a physical change in her. Shes just naturally closer to the light side of the Force than the protagonists we've had before.

    Worth keeping in mind that Luke and Rey are being presented in a similar fashion to the audience, both are orphans on a desert planet with big dreams. Luke is shown as being a bit whiny and very keen for adventure, he wants to leave Tatooine and he seems a teensy bit selfish when interacting with his aunt and uncle. Luke's selflessness is gradually learned and forced upon him. Rey is just as keen for adventure but she is already selfless, she helps BB-8 because she can, Luke helps R2D2 because his Uncle will get angry at him.

    When Luke learned of the Force he was intrigued but struggled with a lot of the concepts, he gave up easily when training with Obi Wan. Rey was just as wide eyed but instead of having a cynical Han Solo she had an equally wide eyed Finn as her counterpart.

    TLDR: Rey isn't stronger, she's just a true Belieber.

    When the circumstances came where she had to "do or do not, there is no try", she did.

    Pps. Kylo was never trying to kill her and is actually a little scared of probing her because thats his sister yo.
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    JJD Heads Athlai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Ed_ View Post
    My first thought was she might be Luke's daughter. But my knowledge of all these movies is pretty minimal, so probably off the mark with that.

    The Nazi Germany vibe went into overload in the rally scene, didn't it? It was pretty noticeable straight away, and then I almost laughed out loud when the salute happened.

    But I really enjoyed the movie - definitely better than I'd expected.
    My view at the moment is 85% likely another Organa-Solo, 15% daughter of Skywalker. I just don't think they'd change the "formula" of the beats they're hitting. Introducing her as a daughter would require a mother, and we have had no setup for that, and the conflict between cousins is far less dramatic than between siblings.

    Also loved the Nazi Germany scene, Hux basically creamed himself when that laser went off. Was hilarious.

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    JJD Heads Athlai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howe_zat View Post
    I really enjoyed how Kylo got shown up as an insecure wannabe. Him actually not being Darth Vader was one of the few departures the story had from episode IV.
    Yeah I think everyone is so focused on criticizing the similarities in VII and IV when really the departures they provided are the best bits. Kylo being a mirror of Anakin and not Vader honestly took a while for me to process because of the expectations I had brought in, once I realised what they were actually doing I appreciated him so much more.

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend NZTailender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    My view at the moment is 85% likely another Organa-Solo, 15% daughter of Skywalker. I just don't think they'd change the "formula" of the beats they're hitting. Introducing her as a daughter would require a mother, and we have had no setup for that, and the conflict between cousins is far less dramatic than between siblings.

    Also loved the Nazi Germany scene, Hux basically creamed himself when that laser went off. Was hilarious.
    Supposedly there is a tombstone like monument somewhere at the end, when we see Skywalker. Could imply a dead wife/mother.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZTailender View Post
    Supposedly there is a tombstone like monument somewhere at the end, when we see Skywalker. Could imply a dead wife/mother.
    It's also an old Jedi temple, the whole thing seems a bit like a gravestone. Not entirely sold on the Skywalker is daddy theory, but still definitely possible in my eyes.

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    International Coach Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    More of this is going to be due to the limitations of filmmaking at the time and introducing concepts of the Force than you'd imagine. Rey is definitely more of a "natural" but we haven't seen anything yet that puts her as being significantly more special than Anakin/Luke when they were able to destroy the trade federation/star killer.

    I think Rey could have certainly had some force training when younger but I don't think it changes much at all. Everytime she used the Force actively there was a physical change in her. Shes just naturally closer to the light side of the Force than the protagonists we've had before.

    Worth keeping in mind that Luke and Rey are being presented in a similar fashion to the audience, both are orphans on a desert planet with big dreams. Luke is shown as being a bit whiny and very keen for adventure, he wants to leave Tatooine and he seems a teensy bit selfish when interacting with his aunt and uncle. Luke's selflessness is gradually learned and forced upon him. Rey is just as keen for adventure but she is already selfless, she helps BB-8 because she can, Luke helps R2D2 because his Uncle will get angry at him.

    When Luke learned of the Force he was intrigued but struggled with a lot of the concepts, he gave up easily when training with Obi Wan. Rey was just as wide eyed but instead of having a cynical Han Solo she had an equally wide eyed Finn as her counterpart.

    TLDR: Rey isn't stronger, she's just a true Belieber.

    When the circumstances came where she had to "do or do not, there is no try", she did.

    Pps. Kylo was never trying to kill her and is actually a little scared of probing her because thats his sister yo.
    Yeah, don't buy any of that, but glad you enjoyed the film (I did mostly too).

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend NZTailender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    It's also an old Jedi temple, the whole thing seems a bit like a gravestone. Not entirely sold on the Skywalker is daddy theory, but still definitely possible in my eyes.
    I just don't see how Han and Leia would've both met Rey and not been like 'oh hey, our daughter' especially since Leia can sense disturbances in the force. Unless they're trying to protect Rey, in which case they didn't let on at all that she exists.

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