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Thread: Mosul falls

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    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    Mosul falls

    Mosul in Iraq has fallen to the extremists. What a waste this Iraq war has been, hundreds of thousands dead and it's gotten worse. What was the point.

    The good old US did the same thing in Afghanistan when they left the country to the Mujahiddin after the Soviets left.

    Iraq city of Mosul falls into hands of ISIS jihadists after police, army abandon posts - CBS News

    America really needs to change it's policy to fight against the extremists and not hand over land to them.
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    International Coach HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    So, what's your solution to this AN? Obviously instead of turning back the clock and doing things differently in the first place. What can be done now? What should be done now?
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    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    So, what's your solution to this AN? Obviously instead of turning back the clock and doing things differently in the first place. What can be done now? What should be done now?
    This ought to be good.

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    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    If the entire Midde East were to embrace atheism and then convert every Synagogue, Church, and Mosque into a Museum then the problem would be solved I think. And while that's happening the Old City of Jerusalem should be handed over to the UN who would then administer it as a space that is both Secular and Stateless.

    That should kick the thread along.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    AN why do you think the us invade iraq in the first place?
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

    Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

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    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    If the entire Midde East were to embrace atheism and then convert every Synagogue, Church, and Mosque into a Museum then the problem would be solved I think. And while that's happening the Old City of Jerusalem should be handed over to the UN who would then administer it as a space that is both Secular and Stateless.

    That should kick the thread along.
    So more troops committed there?

    Will you be happy for Australian troops to be sent over and fight the war against religion?

    I don't know Heath, can the situation be recovered?

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    International Coach HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux View Post

    I don't know Heath, can the situation be recovered?
    Well, this is the rub isn't it. I look at this and wonder what the hell can be done to 'fix' the problem. "The West" clearly haven't "succeeded" by pouring troops and resources into Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Pakistan etc. so I doubt pouring more troops and resources will do the trick. Doing nothing risks "anarchy" or at least increased risk over a wider area so is hardly an ideal solution. I haven't got a scooby.

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    Mosul is the second largest city in the country iirc. If they manage to keep Mosul under long-term control then Baghdad is only matter of time.

    I mean after two wars with rather mixed results they might want to solve the **** themselves...
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    International Debutant ohnoitsyou's Avatar
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    Can't really see how any further intervention would make things any better tbh, the US only have themselves to blame in the rise of ISIS
    Last edited by ohnoitsyou; 11-06-2014 at 03:25 AM.

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    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux View Post
    Mosul in Iraq has fallen to the extremists. What a waste this Iraq war has been, hundreds of thousands dead and it's gotten worse. What was the point.

    The good old US did the same thing in Afghanistan when they left the country to the Mujahiddin after the Soviets left.
    Relatively speaking, of course, but quite a few of the Mujahiddin weren't that bad. In fact, most of them were all right. Even the Soviets weren't all that bad.

    It's the Taliban that were the major ****s. Some of whom were Mujahiddin, yes, but as a faction they sorta mysteriously appeared out of nothing in the 90s...

    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    If the entire Midde East were to embrace atheism and then convert every Synagogue, Church, and Mosque into a Museum then the problem would be solved I think. And while that's happening the Old City of Jerusalem should be handed over to the UN who would then administer it as a space that is both Secular and Stateless.
    No.

    while religion is obviously an additional problem here because it lets people justify **** easier, you still have people who believe that their land is occupied.

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    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    With the Soviets leaving and the US thinking it's over and withdrawing support, a power Vacuum was created for the Talibs to take over. Maybe if the US actually funded and supported the right group back then instead of leaving Afghanistan to rot, things would have been different.

    Why was Afghanistan left as it is but South Korea developed?

    Afterall the Afghans did for the US - fighting their proxy war against the Soviets.
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    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    Well, this is the rub isn't it. I look at this and wonder what the hell can be done to 'fix' the problem. "The West" clearly haven't "succeeded" by pouring troops and resources into Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Pakistan etc. so I doubt pouring more troops and resources will do the trick. Doing nothing risks "anarchy" or at least increased risk over a wider area so is hardly an ideal solution. I haven't got a scooby.
    The US succeeded in both its objectives. That is, to destroy the regime of Saddam Hussein and to cripple Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan.

    What remains to be seen is whether the regimes that eventually fill the two voids end up being more destructive than their predecessors. Personally, I don't how any replacement can possibly be worse than either the regime of Saddam Hussein or Al-Qaeda, so in that regard the US has succeeded more than it has failed.

    What is clear is that Western governments will continue to fight either 'hot' or 'cold' wars against Islam inspired regimes and terrorist groups for a long time to come. Maybe the next 100 years or so? The reason that the war will be so long is that Islam is not a monolith like Japan in the 1940s, but rather a diaspora made up of many different competing factions and ideologies - chop off one head of the hydra and another one grows back. But chop them off we must as there is simply no choice in the matter.

    Where does Atheism come in? Well it is the only ideology capable of competing with the ideology of Islam because it is equally uncompromising. If Islam says that "There is no God except Allah" then Atheism says back "There is no God".

    Christianity is effectively useless as a competing ideology as its arguments are so tenuous and accomodating. Also, and importantly, Christianity cannot really demand that society be Secular because that would be an act of hypocrisy if you think about it. However, Atheism and Secularism go hand-in-hand, and are entirely consistent with eachother. Atheism and its ideological cousins such as Humanism demand that Monotheism be kept separate from all forms of government and its domains.
    Last edited by watson; 11-06-2014 at 03:27 PM.

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    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Your ideas on religion are incredibly ignorant.

    Try meeting Christian people from Asian countries and you'll see that they're far more uncompromising than most Muslims. Christianity is just as inherently secular as Islam.

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    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    Your ideas on religion are incredibly ignorant.

    Try meeting Christian people from Asian countries and you'll see that they're far more uncompromising than most Muslims. Christianity is just as inherently secular as Islam.
    Total nonsense. Who are you trying to kid?

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    Atheism is an ideology now is it?

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