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Thread: 2014 New Zealand Election thread

  1. #46
    Hall of Fame Member NZTailender's Avatar
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    So basically, it's a life ruiner. It ruins lives.
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  2. #47
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    it does ruin lives. so does alcohol. so do cigarettes.

    but you wouldn't drink booze 24/7 would you? in moderation a bit of weed is harmless. i don't know what the relative normal person/you suck thresholds for weed and booze are but if you legalise it you can tax it and use it to make the next generation of weed shock ads to slot between a drunk dad throwing his young child into a cabinet and a tour of the smokers' cancer infested lungs.
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    Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree.
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  3. #48
    Hall of Fame Member NZTailender's Avatar
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    Then there's the fat, diabetic elephant in the room: fatty foods. The key is education and not law IMO.

  4. #49
    International Debutant ohnoitsyou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZTailender View Post
    Then there's the fat, diabetic elephant in the room: fatty foods. The key is education and not law IMO.
    Sugar as well. The sugar lobby is to the Democrats what the oil lobby is to the republicans
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  5. #50
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    What do you guys think about the campaign to prevent testing the safety of legal highs on animals (appears to be dogs and rats in particular)?

    I'm struggling to find any what/why/how on the internet because of the flood of petitions and anti-testing campaigns.

    My first thought was if people don't want to risk the lives of dogs and rats from exposure to party pills and synthetic cannabis then perhaps these substances shouldn't be on the market? If the people campaigning against it didn't think there was a risk then they wouldn't have an issue with it. After all, if they're safe then the doggies will get a nice high before getting some serious Tux cravings.

    Then I remembered a) the testers probably want to find the safety limits of these drugs and will overdose the animals and b) maybe people are objecting to gratuitous testing on animals using substances that are already proven to be relatively safe in correct doses.

    I do think there is a level of Appeal to the Fluffy - they chose the photo of a dog with puppy eyes over a rat for a reason - but if the substances have been tested previously and approved for market sale (they would have to have been wouldn't they?) then this is a bit gratuitous and reeks of National trying to find a reason to permanently ban the substances for ideological reasons rather than them having an honest public health concern.

    The uncomfortable reality is animal testing is necessary. Nobody cares about 100 dead rats except the lunatic fringe. 100 dead puppies is sad and makes baby Jesus cry. 100 dead people is even worse and would have serious repercussions. However, if this is gratuitous and powered by ideology then it is pretty dire.

    So does anyone know why they are doing this test now and if tests have been done before, what they hope to achieve and how they plan to go about the experiment? Has any government body or scientific institute posted a research proposal anywhere, preferably with the intended methods included? I'd like to read it.

    TL;DR - My facebook is flooded with the same sad, cute looking puppy asking me to sign a petition. Is he there because National want to kill him to further their anti-drug ideology or is he there because Labour and the Greens really want "National kills puppies" to be their campaign slogan?

    edit: so it's the LD50 test apparently where they find the lethal dose at which 50% die.
    Last edited by Flem274*; 01-05-2014 at 05:24 PM.

  6. #51
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    I don't care how necessary animal testing is, it's a pretty morally borderline activity which needs to at the very least have a massive spotlight on it at all times. It's something which should have massive pressure.
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  7. #52
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    I agree, but it is morally reprehensible to either go straight to human testing from the petri dish or worse, not test at all. It's not a nice or PC thing to say but you have to test everything on something that isn't human but more complex than a few cells in a test tube.

    I still think if they had only proposed to kill off some rats then nobody would care. This issue is only an issue because they're using dogs and we like dogs.

  8. #53
    International Coach HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    I think they should use cats.
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  9. #54
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    I think they should use politicians.

  10. #55
    International Coach Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    I think they should use cats.
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  11. #56
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    insert more generic 19 year old opinions here

  12. #57
    International Coach Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned View Post
    I don't care how necessary animal testing is, it's a pretty morally borderline activity which needs to at the very least have a massive spotlight on it at all times. It's something which should have massive pressure.
    All the hot chicks at school were anti vivisection

  13. #58
    International Captain BeeGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    All the hot chicks at school were anti vivisection
    Were the ugly chicks pro-vivisection?
    Hurricane likes this.

  14. #59
    International Captain BeeGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned View Post
    I don't care how necessary animal testing is, it's a pretty morally borderline activity which needs to at the very least have a massive spotlight on it at all times. It's something which should have massive pressure.
    While I don't like the idea of animal testing, there are thousands and thousands people who owe their lives to life saving drugs that could only be developed by testing them on animals.
    Last edited by BeeGee; 02-05-2014 at 05:50 PM.

  15. #60
    International Coach Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeeGee View Post
    While I don't like the idea of animal testing, there are thousands and thousands people who owe their lives to life saving drugs that could only be developed by testing them on animals.
    So you can see both sides of the issue but lean towards animal testing being allowed. I have no issue at all with animal testing but just wish that, like Flem says, dogs or cats weren't used. I also think they need better measures to protect the rights of the animals - some of the things are kind of unnecessary that they do - i can't think of any examples atm though.

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